markd

agreed, it's not even in my top 5 at beacon.

worthy tr and sweet pics. nice sending on some backwater oregon routes.

paul, i agree completely with you that this crag should remain boltless as that's how the original developers believed it should be developed along with the fact that no guidebook gets written and people find out via word-of-mouth. that being said, i find it laughable that you choose to only follow one of those provisions and kind of evolve the other as you choose, all the while you staunchly are opposed to anyone considering placing bolts because you say so. meanwhile you're also talking about it on the web and basically giving away it's location. if you're going to set a precedent and have a boltless crag based off history and tradition then you yourself should try and follow strictly the rules that were told to you when you were first brought there.

i hope you're not asking this in preface to outing the crag you're referring to! to answer your question, yes the reality of a crag without bolts is attainable though not sustainable at all crags.

1st pitch is 35m.

nice job getting out and finding some old-school adventure ivan. you never cease to amaze me with your go-get-it attitude. i guess now that beacon is closed you'll have to look hard for said adventure. both dracula and superstition ( first pitch ) have been led sans bolts which adds some excitement to a mostly bolted wall. maybe you'll try that next time you're out? i'll post pics later.

looks like the wall stewart and i started cleaning a few months ago?

tyler, you're funny. i was actually talking about the two bolt tr that people have been working for years. the bolt ladder is not-so-sweet at all. how's your bolt ladder going down at smith

kevin, it wasn't me that put the bolts in, though i wouldn't be embarrassed if it was. the route the developers were going for was visionary and would have been and will be the hardest route at broughton. edit: i'm referring to the two upper bolts that were place for free climbing, not the bolt ladder just drilled.

the upper bolts were put in around 2003 when a few of us were attempting bolted routes at broughton on gear. as far as i know no one has 'freed' that section on lead, however, i do remember hearing from them that it was v10 over the roof or some such hard number.

i have been doing my best not to comment here without actually going out to see it for myself, which has given me some time to think about this vision-less route. i find myself wondering, is there any situation that a bolt ladder to nowhere is an acceptable means of new-routing? has there ever been an era that found this style of ascent groundbreaking, if it wasn't used to connect features on long routes? it's 2009 and there is rock climbing gyms everywhere that you can practice bolt ladder climbing. those bolts could be used for very positive bolt replacement if they're removed. maybe the fa crew will agree to this and take it down themselves. maybe not though.

larry in the house.

i can tell you with certainty the book is done. the uncertain part is when it hits the stores but the word from the source is next fall. kevbone, you must be kidding when you say that there are other qualified to write the new guide. no has the meticulous records that alan has, which would make it not possible to write a complete guide. a few of the new-schoolers could write a book on the modern routes but not complete. give alan the respect he deserves as the smith rock guide is one of the best written anywhere.

bill, you know the first rule about the phantom right?

If I have the story right. It was chopped because of ego......has it seen an accent sans bolts? time for a history lesson. legend has it that 'the phantom' didn't like that a rap bolted route was put up ( or down ) off land of the little people. nathan went back up and bolted it on lead using gear and bolts and it was chopped again. even jim o wanted it to stay or at least that's what he told me. only the first bolt is missing though.

that's funny bill! i guess i'm done posting here as joseph is just ignoring my thoughts. not sure how i got sucked into this anyway.

joseph, your last post is, case-and-point what i'm trying to convey. now you're telling ivan what he should be focusing on with his climbing, because YOU think it's right. in all honesty, what do you know about aid climbing anyway? do you ever aid climb?

my comment was more in regard to the fact that you're always so sure that your train of thought is: a) correct, and b) the only option - to you there is no option "c". in some cases you're right; however, not always. if that route means so much to you, why haven't you gone back since the 80s to try it? the rock above there is not "naturally" loose; it was dynamited! you are not working with the natural environment up there. one more thought: you're SURE this specific rock shouldn't be trundled, so it isn't, yet, you're sure other rocks should be trundled, so you trundle. do you see the pattern?

joseph, is there a chance that you are ever wrong? not trying to be rude, but you always seem so certain you're right about everything.

a lightning bolt that is.

minx, thanks for coming all the way down to this event. it was nice getting the chance to mee you; you looked great. everyone that helped with this event, donated items or showed up should be proud. we raised a good chunk of change for the rauch's while bringing the community together.

are you staring at me in the pic, ivan? thanks again to everyone for the turnout. to say it was a success would be an understatement. it makes me proud to be part of such a good community of climbers and people.

kevbone, it's called multi-tasking

joseph, i'd say your first pitch of menopause is pretty hardy for 5.9 as well! is it harder than that? nate - great send! now that i'm back in portland i'll have to give it a run. thanks all for the cleaning.

kevin attempting bloodline on gear. it should be noted that kevin had never even successfully led a 5.12 at this point, however, he was trying to lead this one sans bolts.