chris

"There were no crevasses and I couldn't even tell where the bergshrund would be." I don't want to rain on your accomplishment, but I call bullshit. I climbed Mt. Hood, via the South Side, on Sunday. The potential crevasses and bergshrund are at 10,500', as plain as the nose in front of you. Just because they're well bridged and filled doesn't eliminate them, even if it did eliminate the need for a rope.

Timmy, I'd like to help form a standard avalanche near miss and incident report form for events that don't require public emergency assistance. I think that NWAC does a great job reporting avalanche incidences resulting in fatalities and public rescue services. Friends of Northwest Weather and Avalanche Center have an excellent site to report snow condition reports. But I think that Cascade Climbers would be the best place to report avalanche incidences, especially near misses, such as what Know_Fear reported. A standardized, easy to use form could help. Skip, I just finished my Level III and reported it here. Thanks for the advice.

Just wanted to share the cool experience I just finished with Black Diamond Customer Service. Earlier this season I bought a pair of ClipFix Skins. I was a little concerned when the tail system didn't quite fit over my boards - the ski's were a bit thicker than the clips were shaped. And you can imagine my frustration when they came loose on every tour, every time. Didn't matter if I loosend them up or tightened down. I even tried shaving the tail of my skis to lower the profile. After leading a group of friends up the Kendal Stump last weekend, I'd had enough, and I emailed the ski contact at the BD website and explained my complaint. I also mentioned the opinion that I've heard expressed here a lot - that BD sometimes puts products out on the market, and then fine tunes them later. Thomas called me back at 9:30am (Utah time)on Monday morning to discuss things with me. It was a great telephone call. To make things short, Thomas said that a lot of BD's ski products - in particular some of the new binding designs - resulted from BD's purchase of a binding company. BD's impression at the time of sale was that the binding company had done their research and the products were ready for the market. BD was a little pissed when it turned out not to be the case, but it was too late. The company had already been bought, the products already shipped, and BD was just going to have to make it right. (This is really the short version - we talked for almost an hour). For me, per my request, BD is sending me a Glidelite tail kit to replace the ClipFix tails. Seemed like the right thing to ask for, since that's where the problem was. Garrett in BD Warranty called me on Wednesday to reconfirm my address. It was cool, and I'll buy these two beers next time I'm in SLC. BD rocks - and a lot of their products are the best there is.

I just finished an English paper regarding avalanche incidences in Washington, and my research brought to light an interesting fact. There's no place on the web with a comprehensive avalanche reporting system. Sure, at NWAC there are accident reports. But its limited to accidents that required public emergency services. Friends of NWAC specifically ask that TR not be posted - and a near miss avalanche would sound a lot like a TR. Right here, I found one report, from Know_Fear, about a near miss. That's it. I can't help but believe there are more (hell, danielpatricksmith and I had one on Red Mountain last spring). What I'd like to propose is an Avalanche Report form to the Powers That Be, that can be entered like a TR and automatically posted in the freshiezone. It could be formed to report avalanches witnessed, or avalanche near misses, or avalanche incidences. What do you think?

I just returned home from Bishop, California, where I completed an AIARE Level III course through the Sierra Mountain Center. It rocked. The course lasted four days: Day One (Thursday): Morning - light review and introduction, Afternoon - in the field, digging Full Pits Day Two (Friday): Morning - discussing tests and documentation strategies, Afternoon - ski tour, test pits, and turns on Table Mountain! Day Three (Saturday): Day - ski tour up Point Bardini, discussing travelling tests and determining the appropriate tests to perform, get some excellent turns down, and practice multiple burials (based on the AMGA ski mountaineers exam). Evening: review test pit documentation, plan following day's tour. Day Four (Sunday): Full day tour up to Mt. Morrison - Little Morrison Peak (M & M) Col. Originally planned to summit Mini-Moe, but were forced by warming snow conditions to return via our ascent route from the top of the Col. Wrapped up in the parking lot by preparing a Avalanche Hazard Forcast for the Eastern Sierra for the next three days. This course was awesome, and it was very much focused on applied avie science. It was also my first experience with the AIARE curriculum - before this, I've taken two Level I's and two more Level II's, from three different companies. For the uninitiated, the American Institute for Avalanche Research and Education is a non-profit working toward establishing a national curriculum and materials for Avalanche Forecast and rescue training. According to their own research, the AIARE curriculum is used in about half of the avalanch training courses offered today. The Level III is focused for professional avalanche forcasters, ski patrollers, and guides. In our course, we had two forcasters, three patrollers, and two guides. A real strong group. The Sierra Mountain Center is a small company operating much like Pro Guides or the North Cascades Mountain Guides. Howie Schwartz was our lead instructor, and SP Parker assisted. Beers for them. Afterwards, I stuck around for three days and did three more tours with some friends from Mammoth. I came home with a new tan and a wealth of knowledge. Check these websites out: The Sierra Mountain Center at www.sierramountaincenter.com The American Institute for Avalanche Research and Training at www.avtraining.org

This is a great thread that proves the need to go out and take WFR or WEMT courses. The Wilderness components address issues like remote care and when it is appropriate to stop providing care. FYI: The Wilderness Medicine Society Practice Guidelines For Wilderness Emergency Care, edited by William W. Forgey, M.D., states that CPR does not need to be initiated when 1) vital signs are detected 2) there is a danger for rescuers 3) dependent lividity is present (that's the pooling of fluids in the body, typically 4 after death and lasting 12-24 hours) 4) rigor mortis 5) obvious lethal injury (decapitation, significant bleeding, massive trauma, etc.) 6) a well-defined DNR status (your partner tells you he has a DNR form in his medical record and his wife knows it too) 7) a patient with a frozen chest (CPR is ineffective without adequate chest movement) If you do start CPR, the WMS states you can stop when: 1) resuscitation is successful (now go get a beer) 2) RESCUERS ARE EXHAUSTED (emphasis is mine) 3) RESCUERS ARE PLACED IN DANGER 4) patient is turned over to more definitive care (typically, someone with more training who is willing to take responisibility) 5) PATIENT DOES NOT RESPOND TO PROLONGED - APPROMIXIMATELY THIRTY MINUTES - OF RESCUSCITATIVE EFFORTS This is an excellent book for the definitive standards in wilderness - not urban - medicine. Copies can be purchased through the Wilderness Medicine Institute of NOLS online. Negligence can occur if and only if all four issues are proven: 1) A Duty to Act existed - when the injured and the care-giver have established a relationship where the care-giver was responsible for the safet and mideical care of the injured 2) Breach of Duty - the care-giver then does something, either by action or omission, outside of the existing stadard of care (defined as the care one would expect to be given in similar circumstances by similarly trained individuals) 3) Physical or Physchological Injury - a definable injury then occurs 4) Cause - the care-giver's breach of duy directly caused the injury Obligation to create a Duty to Act is different from State to State. Typically, those of us with at least an EMT - Basic or higher training do have an obligation. Also, if you are leading a group on a trip, you have already created a duty to act. While every state I'm aware of has Good Samaritan laws protecting layman (and that typically covers those with First Aid training but not operating in a professional or leadership capability as well), I believe Vermont actually has a "Good Neighbor" law, in which the first person at the scene of an accident or medical incident is required to stop and give aid, even if it is just comfort, until professional assistance arrives. Don't "Geek out" on the legal issues too much - to date, there has never been a negligence suit attempted against someone in a wilderness setting.

When Dan and I climbed the JC last year, I don't remember seeing any right hand variation 1000' up. If it was there, it would have required a desperate mixed pitch to reach it.

I just finished an NREMT-B recert and Wilderness Upgrade for Medical Professionals with the Wilderness Medicine Institute (WMI). This is my second time recertifying with WMI, and they do an excellent job - a lot of the standards in wilderness medicine were developed by their directors and founders. I'm pretty sure they have WFR classes going on in the PNW this spring. Check them out on the web. Worth every penny.

Falcon press prints a staple guide to Castle Crags. The Fifth Season in Mt. Shasta sells it.

I was there last end of September / beginning of October, and watched two teams of friends climb the Coleman Headwall. They reported dinner-plating ice but solid all the way. It looked way cool, and I'm planning on it for this fall. My team tried the North Ridge, and after three attempts we couldn't find a way around the bergschrunds one the ridge proper, and had to retreat...

Has anyone even heard of a cam physically failing? I.e., one of the lobes actually deforming or breaking? I sure haven't. All that has ever happened to me is the cam blowing out when the rock around it failed, and the triggered getting mangled so bad it had to be replaced. A long time ago, I picked up a #4 at the bottom of Tahquitz that had fallen and tumbled 300+ feet. I worked in a hospital at teh time, and one of the x-ray tech's had a fun time maxing the machine out so that we could look for stress fractures in the metal. Didn't find any though...

I know a lot of ski patrollers that don't carry a probe pole. Instead, they strip a basket off of their ski pole and probe with that. With radio communication, they rationalize that someone else will come with a full length pole if necessary. I've used this aproach with a small group, by ensuring we have at least one pole for every two or three people. It will suck if the guy carrying the pole is buried, but it makes sense on the fast/light/short day trips in Low Avalanche Conditions (capitalized on purpose).

I'm still using the Suunto Vector I bought in May 2000. I don't care for the compass - its a complete waste of space, but I dig how big the numbers are. I've changed the battery twice without any problems. Some of my friends have had problems with the electronics, others don't like the size. In retro, I would have gotten a Suunto Altimax. It had a smaller dial, no compass, but still had the big numbers. Of course Suunto stopped making them, though I did see one over at Second Ascent for $150 or there-abouts.

Metolius also offers sling and trigger replacement. In fact, they told me they specifically don't offer trigger-replacement kits because they want the oppurtunity to examine cams that are so mangled the trigger doesn't work.

My room mate is looking for a REALLY CHEAP cross country ski packagage to buy. Looking for a full skis/boots/bindings/poles deal for someone 5'5", 140-150 lbs., but partials considered. Willing to pay less than $100. Please PM. Thanks.

Historically (maybe some of the old farts can chime in), when manufactured harness were introduced you often bought leg loops seperate from the waist belt to get a more "custom" fit. Back then, the belay loop was simply a short sling to conect the two - hence the tradition of clipping into each seperately. Nowadays (like for the last 15+ years), the belay loop has been beefed up. Take a look. That belay loop is actually a double layered loop, and the stiching goes through three layers of fabric (at least on mine). Each one of those bar tacks, I'm told, is worth more than 250lbs of force. So the belay loop could very well withstand more force than a human body. For me, I still tie in through the waist and the leg loops seperately, but then belay and rappel off of the belay loop. This keep the belay device (an ATC) in line with the direction of travel/direction of rappel.

oops

Actually, 1. Joe states that he ditched all the "extraneous" gear when he exited the crevasse and realized he was going to have to crawl/hobble/scream back to camp. 2. He didn't realize Simon WASN'T on the other end until he was looking at a cut rope. 3. They didn't splint his leg because he needed to use both crampons at the end of each ropelength.

This reminds me of a grading system I think Bridwell introduced. I've adapted it for ice: WI Fun WI Hard WI Scared But seriously, an insert was in the latest issue of The American Alpine News. Its the AAJ's "official" International Grade Comparison Chart and also includes descriptions of Water Ice Grades. Here what they have to say: "Water Ice and Alpine Ice Grades: Ice climbing ratings are highly variable by region and are still evolving. The following descriptions approximate the average systems. The WI acronym implies seasonal ice; AI is often substituted for year-around Alpine Ice and may be easier that a WI grade with the same number. Canadians often drop the WI symbol and hyphenate the technical grade after the Canadian commitment grade's roman numeral (example: II-5). WI 1: Low angle ice, no tools required. WI 2: Consistent 60 degrees ice with possible bulges; good protection. WI 3: Sustained 70 degrees with possible long bulges of 80-90 degrees; reasonable rests with good stances for placing screws. WI 4: Continuous 80 degree ice or fairly long sections of 90 degree ice broken up by occasional rests. WI 5: Long and strenuous, with a rope-length of 85-90 degree ice offering few good rests; or a shorter pitch of thin or bad ice with protection that's difficult to place. WI 6: A full ropelength of near-90 degree ice with no rests, or a shorter pitch even more tenuous than WI 5. Highly technical. WI 7: As above, but on thin poorly bonded ice or long, overhanging poorly adhered columns. Protection is impossible or very difficult to place and of dubious quality. WI 8: Under discussion." There you have it.

Well, I'll be damned. I actually called Second Ascent and had a research conversation with Patsy. And discovered that once again I had my head shoved right up my own ass. Here what research revealed: Single ropes - marked with an "infinity" sign Half ropes - marked with a "1/2" sign, each piece is intended to be clipped seperately Twin Ropes - marked with a two interconnected "rings" sign, each piece is intended to be clipped by both strands. Patsy then gently chided me for getting "double" and "half" confused AGAIN. I respectfully apologize to everyone who's been having to listen to my pompous preaching on this thread. Thanks for setting me straight, David and Patsy.

I don't tie into pieces. Doing so eliminates any dynamic quality, and until you've added gear, you've now created a Factor 2 point in your system, and now you have to climb further to reduce the force factors on the tied off gear. To be further confusing, picture this. You've climbed 50 feet above your upward-directed anchor (with the rope attached to with a screamer for shits and giggles), and have reached the crux. If you tie into that bomber piece before the crux, you have effectively elimanted any dynamic propoerty of the rope and if you blow your next piece will create a Factor 2 fall onto that tied of piece. Good luck. I would rather attach a screamer to that bomber piece below the crux and move. This, I think, is the more dynamic, force absorbing, safer method.

Clove hitch on locking biner. Backed up with the end tied in. No joke. This is how I learned aid-solo in the Valley, and I still use it unless I can borrow a friends Soloist. Its a pain in the ass to move, but it works fine.

The rope manufacturers seem to be using "twin ropes" and "double ropes." A Beal rep I know said the term "1/2 ropes" was getting mistakenly confused the most, so manufacturers decided to sop using it. And CBS, I understand your original queestion. But this thread got a little off the orginal subject, as conversations are sometimes known to do. I'm OK with it - this is a cool subject, and I like hearing ya'lls opinions.

But you have to watch out. Twin ropes are designed with greater stretch than doubles to lower the impact forces on the gear. If you clip both lines of a double system into an anchor, you are increasing the force on that piece exponentially. I do not recommend following Janez's advice. My partners and I don't really have a problem using a twin system with three people. The force of a slip on top rope (the followers) is a fraction of a leader fall, and the diameter is only an issue on sharp edges, in which case a double might have been better anyways. My favorite compromise is the double. It gives you the durability for the edges, and the extra strand for full-length rappels or a third partner. Mark Twight gives this topic a good discussion in his Alpine book, and I think there's some good information at Petzl and Beal websites.

No, you're right. $85 is a significant investment. But I have the opinion that you learn more effectively with feedback. The better the feedback, the steeper the learning curve. You can go out and practice by yourself, or with your friends. You will learn, but it will be a slower process. Mistakes have to recognized and evaluated. A great example of what I'm talking about is skiing. You can be self-taught. It is a painful, slow process. If you pay for lessons, you will learn faster and improve more quickly. I already consider myself an advanced back country skier. But its exciting to be able to work with others who can help me improve.