cracked

Thanks for the quick and condescending reply, Dwayner. As for my 'endorsing' sport climbing, I would disagree. I'm not going to waste anymore time arguing here, after all, I'm young, so I must be brainwashed, misinformed, drug-addled, and not worthy of comment. See ya, chumps!

Look, Smith would never be a trad climbing destination. A few locals would climb there, but on the tuff at least, all the routes would quickly be climbed. So if a crag of choss doesn't get climbed on by you trad masters, how does it hurt to drill some holes and let other people enjoy the area? Doesn't change a thing as far as you're concerned. So far, you've bitched about the people who bolt climbs. So why are you bitching about the people who climb those routes? What have they done that's so heinous, compared to your noble activities? I tell you to gain perspective only because you've lost it. The younger generation isn't 'lost', so quit your whining. Oh, nice mangling of my post, Pope. Good cheap trick to make you look like a jackass.

Poper, what the hell are you talking about? I haven't placed a bolt in my life, most sport climbers can say the same. Overbolting, bolts next to cracks, etc, usually are perpetrated by a select handful of jackasses who, not unlike yourself, have a fanatical view of climbing. You blame the invisible hordes of 'sport climbers'. I'll let you in on a secret, buddy. Sport climbers, especially your version of them, sport climb because it's simple and convenient. Now, bolting a new route is neither, so your average Joe Sportclimber doesn't bolt new routes. Quit generalizing. Fuck, I am a sport climber, and am still a gym climber, and the only inpact I've had on the cliffs is chalk and shoe rubber. Remember, THERE ARE VERY FEW INDIVIDUALS WHO CREATE THE ROUTES THAT YOU TAKE OFFENSE TO. Sure, there are many who climb them. But you should focus on people like Dave and Dee Tvedt, who mindlessly bolt any rock that catches their eye. Take a look at the 'hydrotube' thread. You say that anybody can grab a drill and start bolting. True, but not many people do. You really think that a sport climber would aid 50 feet of Index granite, sink a bolt, then continue? Hell no, it was done by someone who does a bunch of trad climbing and is a jackass. I support removal of bolted cracks, selected removal of bolts on overbolted sport routes, bolts on a route previously led on trad gear, and bolts that are just stupid. You make it sound like bolting is a 'plague', that everyone and their grandma runs out a buys a drill, and rock dust starts flying. It doesn't work like that. Hello? BTW, Pope, I'm 17. I started climbing in a gym. I moved outside, to sport routes . I have a good grasp on ethics. I would even strongly support chopping certain routes. I still feel that sport climbing, soulless as it may be, can be fun, challenging, and it would be a waste not to have that option. Without sport climbing, Smith would not be know for climbing. It's a choss heap unless you rap down, and clean the routes. Places like American Fork might be an ethical heap by now, but nobody would have climbed there if it wasn't for sport climbing. I dream of hard alpine routes. I also dream of hard sport routes, but it's a different kind of dreaming. The folks who climb hard and post on this board, like Daylward, Michael_Layton, Colin, ForrestM, etc, are the ones who inspire me. Pretending that everyone who emerged from the chalky depths of the gym is an incarnation of the devil pisses me off. Gain some perspective.

Wait, I thought the Gigi was the shizzle....now you're saying the rocking chair is the shizzle....tomorrow you'll be saying the GriGi is the shizzle, or was it the GiVerso? I'm confused.

As a fellow liberal, I'm a little surprised by your pragmatic interpretation of the 1st Amendment. Apparently, what you desire for this board is the realization of a forum in which like-minded people can spend the day agreeing with each other. Just so long as nobody disagrees with your opinion or with the majority viewpoint, as long as they are capable of contributing to the montone.....then and only then do you, MattP, support the free and unrestricted exchange of ideas. My advice to the man for whom I coined the phrase "effortlessly cool" ? On those days when being cool DOES require a little effort......it's still worth the effort. If you exclude Dwayner from these discussions, you might wish to change the name of the site to CASCADESPORTCLIMBERS.COM Good night, gentlemen. Right, Dwayner's the only trad who posts here. Buy a clue.

I think he's drunk.

I think over fifty. Edit, no, 48.

Except for the young punk ass beotches like you. Just another four years, then I can come to Pub Club.

I've got plans now. Thanks to those who reponded.

who?

Everyone on this board is old. Hah!

Whatever you say, kitten.

Wanna go climb?

That second thin crack looks cool...what is it?

That's what I did last night! Stone Gardens . But I need to clarify; I'm tall and fat. Not skinny. I need to eat fewer cheeseburgers!

I'm tall, but weak. Luckily, they tend to balance each other out. I just need to get more sport climbing in.

Looks like my weekend plans aren't going to work out, so I'm open. Anyone want to hit one of the exits, or Index, for some cragging? Email me: pbelitz@u.washington.edu

I like to rate myself incredibly suck because that is what I tend to climb. But I like jja's point.

Right, I just spaced on his name. Overall, though, Alpinist is WAYYYYY better than the other mags. Climbing and Rock and Ice belong in the trash. The older issues tend to be better, though.

I read it last night, and I was disappointed. It's hard to tell where articles begin, visually it was messy, no clear breaks, and I thought the Cochise article was really lame. Some jackass spraying about how 'indian' he felt there, bullshit and spew, IMO. I just didn't like it. This came as a surprise, as last issue's article of Gadd, Semple, and the other dude's route on Howse was staggeringly good.

I did some inadvertent backpack testing in the Dolomites. On one climb we took an REI pack, about 2000 or 2500 cubic inches. Follower climbed with it. It sucked. The pack would restrict my movements, keep me from looking up, etc, etc. On the other climbs we took my hommade daypack (oops, sorry Beck, rucksack), frameless, about the same size. It climbed leaps and bounds better than the frame pack. Absolutely no comparison. Hence, IMHO, unless you are carrying skis on it, no daypack should have a frame. If you know how to pack em, they carry extremely well. Of course, if you're stupid and don't pack them well, they weight your shoulders more than necessary. It comes down to what you want to use it for.

I like the gauze in the helmet idea. I think I'll do that.

Agreed. I've to two of their jackets and they rawk. Very cheap, too. And light, of course.

No, but the pair that I tried on are certainly rigid, or very close to it.