billcoe

photoshopped, they cheaped out and never sent a satellite up there.... http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicapollo.html

No one's talking about Beacon. If ground up use of a hook is acceptable, whats the judges ruling here on ground up use of a Willy Stick? http://www.climbingtrash.com/thewillystick.html [img:center]http://www.climbingtrash.com/willystick2000.gif[/img] "The Willy Stick was created by Bill Boyle during the early days at Maple Canyon, Utah. Boyle and other climbers established most routes by placing bolts while hanging from the last bolt they drilled. They adopted this ground-up, bolt to bolt method because the tops of most cliffs weren't accessible for rappel drilling and because many of the cobbles seemed too insecure for hooking. This bolt-to-bolt method of drilling can be a very strenuous way to establish a route and even harder on steep rock, not to mention that you don't get as much space between bolts. So, after one grueling day of drilling, Bill went home put on his thinking cap and, after a few High Point beers, conceived the Willy Stick. "

Where do guys learn this stuff?

Man I wish I had a video of your Dishwasher Rube Goldberg, pully, climbing rope, car arrangement you set up to pull that dishwasher up the cliff and out. Or even just been there to stand and watch all slack jawed in awe and wonderment. Bet that's something one doesn't see but once in their life if that!!

I have noticed that crash pads have proliferated up on top though. The safety of landing on a pad has increased the amount of boulders too. But for myself, I'm happy to have the kids as company, they're usually great fun and offer lots of encouragement as you are getting discouraged getting your ass handed to you not being able to climb something you could lap in your bare feet up and down repetitively as a kid. I love the company and am glad they are there.

I use to have more hair.

I tend to agree with you Pete. Frankly, I think that it's more the gyms that are pumping in masses of new folks, not the fact that there is more places to climb. They enter clipping bolts as JH says, but it is strange that a few miles from the city limits, in fact inside of the city limits themselves, you can get near solitude still. I only went to the butte 4 or so times last year, which is inside of the city limits, but there were more folks there toproping than previous years. Perhaps of the 100 or so routes there, perhaps 4 to 6 had folks on them after work. I think I even saw 8 cars there once. One time, I could not get on the route I wanted to climb, and went elsewhere even. I rarely see anyone on the best climbs there. Here's Blackberry, it's steep enough to stay nice and clean in between non-ascents. This is my fat ass there last year Ujahn belaying down below there. Jeff Thomas photo. Man, sinker jams, great pro, INSIDE of the city limits. No waiting. No line. No climbers there. You can go bang out laps on Birds and White Rabbit, 3 awesome 5.10's, right there after work. Where are these crowds I keep hearing of? Ain't here.

I tend to avoid Ozone as well for the same reason, but last time I was at Broughtons, which is even closer to PDX, there was only one other party at the entire crag. Nobody seems to climb some of those crack routes and they are sadly accumulating dirt. Needs more traffic. Maybe they all moved on to the Ozone?

Hi Dane, can we get your review posted in the Gear review section of CC.com or someplace semi-accessible and permanent?

Of course they do, especially as I understand that Luke is a strong Christian. The US National Security Agency is also listening in to every call Luke makes with more certainty. JH, do you have a link on the contracts signed indicating the Chinese have 50% of future Iraqi Oil?

sometimes you just have to jump right into it.

LOL

It's interesting that Windsurfing numbers dove. Did it just become unsafe, like you want climbing to head then? Was a just a fad like pet rocks, and maybe climbing will duplicate it. I agree with you that more bolts equals more climbers, however, your Baltimore example above is actually saying that there is more people. Period. More people = more climbers. More disposable income (free time) = more climbers Better equipment = more climbers Bolts/safety would still be the #1 item on the list attributable to the growth I believe. Yet it is not the sole factor. More people and safer gear add. Saftey includes better ropes, and as you personally know on Menopause, even some natural gear routes which once are climbed a few times, become safer for later parties climbing boltless as the loose blocks and rocks are tossed off. In that sense, you are adding to the problem of making things safer by cleaning off a new natural gear route. As far as guessing the numbers of bolted routes, the brand new Smith Rock guidebook has 1800+ routes, total. I would guess @ 60% are bolted, the balance cracks. Maybe someone wants to double check that, as the gorge is crack after crack with less bolted routes. As Smith is far and away the largest area in this state, while places like Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, New Mexico etc etc would have significantly less routes, and California possibly more, perhaps the numbers of routes noted above is inflated. Colorado does have the prolific bolter/first ascentionist Bob D'Antonio: while Washington has Fred Becky. Put me down to adding 130 bolts to that total last year. I think there is a place in climbing for bolts at certain areas, and having more, rather than less of those places is a good thing. I know of a secret spot where there is hundreds and hundreds of splitter cracks, and NO other climbers. It's a short walk up a hill from your car and closer to PDX than Smith. If I wasn't such a weak upper-body pussy and doing other things I'd be all over it, and there will most likely never be any bolts other than anchors there. I think that there is plenty of places around here we can go be alone. A good part of my last year was climbing in 3 spots where there is rarely another climber, and if you see one you know who they are. So from my perspective, it's not crowded at all. I'm up in an area now that I probably could never get to everything by myself in my lifetime. Currently no one goes there but me and a couple of friends. I can look out and see untouched cliffs, and drive down the road and see even more unclimbed rock. There's truly too much of it. This stuff needs and ascent or 2 to get the loose crap off, and as you know, it can be slow going ground up. Sometimes it's a slow to go up and rap and trundle. Someone needs to get on all this stuff. Instead, most folks just want to do a lap up Young Warriors or the Corner again. Even those rare times when I go to Smith (if I can find parking) I can pretty much walk up to any 5 star splitter crack over 5.8 and have the route to myself. I rarely have to wait for a route on Monkey Face as well. When I use to Mt climb I'd often see the same thing. Folks would line up for the south side of Hood, or Jeffersons easy route, but never get on anything harder. I do not believe I ever had to share Cooper Spur with another soul that I wasn't tied into, and many was the time I'd be totally alone, and shocked to pop up onto the summit to see hundreds of climbers on top who had toiled up the S Side. Never ever saw anyone on the steep West or North sides of Jeff. From my viewpoint, one of the problems we all share with the current influx of noobs is that they come to climbing from a different angle and attitude. Their learning and knowledge is lacking and incomplete. When I started, we often came in to the game from hiking and the desire to be out in the woods. This brought a certain mindset, one of respect for nature. We then had to learn slowly from existing climbers, so we got to learn about the history and what is right or wrong from a self-imposed ethical standpoint. Now, folks go right from the gym to the rock, with no understanding of restraint on the use of bolts, or the proper time or place for them. This "it just needs bolts" mindset is a terrible thing which all of us are fighting against as it seems to crop up suddenly and in strange places. This is the kind of thing which I suspect that all of us experienced folks, not just Pope and Raindawg, hate and would decry. [/rant]

When there are no cracks? ............Choosy mothers reach for the Lil Dawg. "The Dragons Spine". Possibly the anchor.

I was thinking this, thanks for saying it. But his point, that bolts will make things safer and thus bring more people: is also true. What's a Mother to do?

Added to list I doubt that folks will be commonly running off to the hills and larger mountains carrying 20 lbs of heavy power drilling crap at all anytime soon. Carrying all that stuff works well only when you are relatively close to your car.

...am I doing the math incorrectly? I don't see how your link gets you to 1/2. From your link:"Iraqi Oil Minister Hussain al-Shahristani said Baghdad will increase oil exports from roughly 144,000 bpd to 300,000 bpd in 2010" I don't see the actual 2009 production numbers from the US govt, but here's some recent news from Al's Jizzum. http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/12/2009122013166878529.html "Total Iraq exports stand at around two million bpd of crude oil". I divide 150,000 into 2,000,000 Barrels per day (Bpd) and I still don't get half even using a Chinese calculator. Is this some of that government math?

I heard the Presidents speech this am while driving into work on my car radio. It was an offer to help the rescue and rebuild of Haiti from the earthquake they just got hit with. The man has a fantastic way with words, and as a citizen it made me both proud and happy. It has specifics, along with the platitudes and generalities. No matter what side of the isle you inhabit, you should listen to his offer to assist them in their time of need. It's really what I want my country to be known for worldwide, and not for just being a bully who will come right over, kill you and all of your family members, and then your pets and livestock, if you don't do what we say. Bravo Barak. I don't know how the right wing wackos on radio can spin this as a negative, however, I suspect they will try.

It was the Chinese threat to not purchase US debt that started the last chain of events that led to the US contraction. They often do things counter intuitive to a Western mind. While you may think they are above using that imbalance to do a power play, I suspect that you are wrong if that is your assertion.

Do you have a link to this fact? While it's true that Oil is a global market wherein if some small producer in Iraq farts, folks in the US and China both have to smell it, and that the Iraqis have open bidding that allows China Oil and Russian firms to bid, I suspect that you are wrong in your assertion if you are measuring it by reserves, and not by having won more new bids.

I THINK THIS DOUBLES AS THE CHINESE OIL USEAGE CHART. Have a nice day thinking of the idea that they have pledged to get back Taiwan, by force if necessary, by 2013. Hmmm, wonder if the import/export imbalance vs the amount of lending they have done for us vis a vis the oil chart below are all connected? Nah, they aren't that smart are they?

I missed it. That bastard Ivan has gotten me hooked on the Aubrey/Maturin books. Hooked I say....

I concur, you dudes are tossing the mud out pretty early, that usually means that you can't form a logical argument, so ya start in with the personal attacks to change tack and deflect your lack of facts. Ditto. Thanks! I have to add Pope, you and Don want to always show up and tell everyone else how to climb and enjoy this activity. However, this is how it comes off "WE'RE RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG". Naturally, when you tell others how they SHOULD be enjoying the sport, they get aggro in return and here we are! I predict another 5 pages of vituperation. (not sure what that means but it seemed to fit) Warm regards to all! ....and Off, you in particular rule dude, as always. Bill

Search Rockclimbing.com for Josephs post.

You must have done a repeat variation of "High Horse". See, when some of these guys git up there, there is no way to get down off of it........there ain't no getting Do(w)n off high horse once he's up there anyway although some others have found the descent.... Not superior kitten though.