JoshK

Ugh...soooo heavy tho...

I am just wondering where you get the idea that public management of our forest lands is worse off than private management. I am talking the entierty, not just the subset for logging. On public lands we have parks, wilderness, etc. if all those lands were private they would be torn down for logging. It simply isn't true that companies will respect the land and the environment unless they are regulated by the government to do so.

Example please. PETER...EXAMPLE PLEASE.

Example please.

Yeah, hozzomen is definitely one that would be a major pain in the ass wihtout the boat. Some of the others you can just walk a little farther

Bonanza is on lake chelan not ross lake. you will have to be more specific, there are lots of peaks you can take the water taxi to, depending on the approach you want to do. Davis? Hozomeen? the north pickets?

the "risk" in that quote doesn't nescessarily mean a risk of death. It means (in my opinion) a risk of failing at trying something. By all means it's a risk to try climbing a bit above your level, but I by no means think that the risk of possibly dying by trying it is what gives people their "high." When I see "extreme" sports people on TV (like how the fuck is bunjee jumping extreme or a sport?) I dont buy the shit about it being so cool because there is a risk you might die. Human instinct goes against that. They said that cause it sounds cool.

Climbing can be SCARY. I don't get my thrills from scaring my self shitless. If I did, I would solo everything. I mean, why not? It's not like it's *good* to fall when you have a rope, so most of us don't. Given that, why don't I just solo everything and my kicks that way? No thanks, I'm there to push my limits in terms of physical and mental challenge and do everything I can to make sure if I fail that I have the best chance of not dying because of it.

It is kind of ironic considering conservatives are the ones all about banning free speech when it's "unpatriotic"

I always find my experience in the mountains is more pleasent when I go right from roadhead to skiing.

I'm missing the connection between mismangement of public resources in communist china and formerly (and now financially destroyed) communist USSR and mismanagement of forest resources in the US...

I wish I had known the pre-eruption st. helens. from all the photos I have seen it looked like it was the best looking of all the cascade volcanoes.

Ever heard of The Aral Sea? Yeah, it's a salty inland sea in central asia that has been drying up rapidly due to overdraw for irrigation, etc. I'm sure you are trying to introduce something specific about it, however, so, please continue...

Individuals may well care about keeping care of their lawns. Even if that means ruining ground, water, etc. I am willing to not even argue that point. The point is industry and corporations have no consideration whatsoever for the proper care of the land or the environment. As Matt said, they'll do what is profitable. Until our government steps up and makes companies pay the actual costs of destroying the global commons, things will go down hill.

OK, I figured so, I've been writing some paper about WW1 all morning...my brain is mush. BTW, Bronco, I am looking for a partner for K2...interested?

I didn't say it was "disallowed." In fact, I have twice stated pretty much the opposite. Let me make it clear for you one more time: you have in fact been allowed to talk shit about Annabelle and you've been allowed to put down other posters and make your jabs not only in Spray but in the climbing forums as well (there have been some limits here, but no absolute ban on shit-talking or put-downs, though we try to maintain such a ban in the Newbies forum, at least). I am merely pointing out that this reflects on you, not only those who you put down. I could be wrong, but I believe that if we were to run some searches I could find literally hundreds of posts where you were dismissive of somebody else's climb or route report, or made some snide retort when they asked a question or gave some advice about some climb or technique or piece of gear. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you have carefully steered the line and you haven't actually put down somebody's climb, but I doubt it. I misworded that. You are right, you in no way stated it was disallowed in any way. If you're point is to show that I am an asshole, or a jerk, or you just don't like me, that's fine, I'll leave it at that. Let's just leave the thread alone for those who rightfully want to diss annabelle.

I've met 18 year old girls (15 for that matter) who are more intelligent than some of the 40 year olds I've met. But point taken...the majority of them are probably not the best source of political commentary. One thing that did strike me about Europe, however, was that the people (young and old) were far more politically and world aware than people in the U.S. are. It's not surprising we demand so little from our leaders.

What are LP, GP or Simpson? Logging companies? HAH! Great example. You're right, we might as well just sell them the alpine lakes wilderness since their pride of ownership would certainly make sure that land is well taken care of. Of course they are going to maintain their land for the maximum timber output; it's their business. Does that mean it's good for the environment? Uh...no. Let's look at the example of industry. They own the land they produce on. Do they give a shit about polluting it? No. And they care even less about letting their crap run off into other people's land or public land. Private owndership does not, in any way, mean pride and attention. Give me a break, I think you are smarter than this.

I'm confused. You mention Mike and Lummox, who have never even been on Everest but not Kurt who made very legit attempts on that mountain. In fact, attempts that could be reasonably called more difficult than most anything anybody on here has ever succeeded on. I'm confused? Was it sarcasm?

Actually, we have and we will. I'd say at least one out of every four posts you have ever added on this bulletin board contain some slap at somebody else - though you've toned it down a little bit in the last several months. You're right, though: Anabelle is fair game. Matt, since when is "slap" and shit-talking disallowed in spray? I dont belittle other's climbs or attemtps. I have often stated I would rather hear about normal people doing normal climbs and having a blast than mark twight or whoever talking about how hardcore they are and how much everybody else sucks. I started where everbody else here did...at the bottom, so I don't look down on those better or worse. Spray, on the other hand, is fair game, which I figured was well understand. Ironically enough, this post is in the spray forum.

Please explain the "point" of the post then. You posted a link to an "environmental" site and people went and looked at it. It's ridiculous and people are expressing those views. How is that beside the point?

I enjoy this particular gem courtest of the "national policy for public policy research" "Excepting the El Nino year of 1998, since about 1979, the Earth's temperature apparently has not been increasing. What minor warming the Earth experienced over the past century primarily occurred before 1940, when there were far fewer motor vehicles and power plants." That's interesting, because anybody, even rightwingers, will tell you that the 90s had something like 5 of the hottest years since 1900 and last summer was the hottest on record. The argument is over if *WE* are causing the warming not if it is warming or not. A pretty bold, flat out lie if you ask me.

At your age, I highly doubt it, but continue in your youthful delusion. OK, fine, I have seen far from all, but the concept of this being passed as an environmental cause is still pretty laughable.

Is it true that getting him down earlier couldn't have saved his life? Obviously I am not saying they should have tried to get there sooner; they did everything they could and more. I am just more curious about the actual injuries he recieved. Was death inevitable, or could have something been done?

Hehe...a right wing "environmental" site, now I have seen it all...