j_b

That's the first time I ever heard an innernutz assclown label Cronkite as 'trivial'. I don't think you did your already somewhat...um...tenuous credibility any favors there, laddie. It's unfortunately not the first time I see an assclown who doesn't understand what he just read. One incidence is trivial evidence by opposition to the behavior in general.

there is no alternative to differentiating the trivial from the general.

not being a protestologist, i'll have to muddle my way through w/ what anecedotes my eye-balls happen upon... well, the first rule of thumb is that power doesn't concede anything unless all other choices are worse for those in control.

walter kronkite, a corporate shill, didn't admit on national tv in january of 1968 that the vietnam war needed to end? at some point you'll have to sort out the anecdotal from the generalized case.

I save my macho posturing, usually accessorized with his and her lucha libre outfits, for the privacy of my own home. Dealing with whiny progressives requires little posturing of any kind. Just a dribble of reality usually does the trick. Except that your reality is in fantasy-land. Successful movements build their own media because they certainly can't rely on that of the establishment to relay their message. But, please, do go on pretending otherwise and calling everybody who says so a whiner if it amuses you.

nobody is putting anybody up front at all b/c there is no leadership and no front - in the absence of either it's pretty easy for anyone, corporate or otherwise, to characterize you as they want. and if there were a front, they'd find ways to demonize it too.

Successfully using corporate media to promote one's message on occasion won't prevent it from demonizing the movement that threatens the corporate status quo. Saying so isn't "whining", it's recognizing what we are up against so spare me the macho posturing.

You are clueless if you think GE and co will let their media peddle for the occupy movement. btw, I am not whining about it, I am telling like it is instead of your fairy tale version.

Public debt as a % of GDP as of 2010. Everyone will notice that "welfare states" with a functioning social safety net are no more in debt than more neoliberal states despite JayB's claim to the opposite: Japan 220 Greece 142.76 Italy 119 Belgium 96.67 Singapore 96.29 Ireland 94.92 United States 94.36 Portugal 92.92 Iceland 92.37 Germany 83.96 Canada 83.95 France 82.33 United Kingdom 75.5 Austria 72.15 Brazil 66.84 India 64.12 Netherlands 63.68 Spain 60.12 Norway 55.42 Poland 54.98 Switzerland 54.52 Malaysia 54.2 Argentina 49.1 Finland 48.39 Denmark 43.65 Mexico 42.92 Turkey 42.15 Slovakia 41.78 Sweden 39.7 Taiwan 38.62 Czech Republic 38.54 Australia 20.52

nobody is putting anybody up front at all b/c there is no leadership and no front - in the absence of either it's pretty easy for anyone, corporate or otherwise, to characterize you as they want. The corporate media will always try to disparage protesters except when it's the tea party. The homeless might as well show what their living conditions are every day for once they can't easily be beaten out of sight.

and my friend walking down the street in pdx? Hey, I am not claiming it is easy. I get worried on the bus sometimes.

It does exist but it isn't mainstream. The Guardian has done a decent job for example.

Nobody is putting the homeless up front but the corporate media.

Exactly. Sleeping where they can't be ignored is fundamental to their gaining a voice. not being high as a kite at all hours is another? any other cliches to shovel our way? what's the fraction of population high as kite at all hours? why shouldn't they also be part of OWS?

The media has gone out of its way to show the weird. It's well documented. as they have w/ the teapartiers, 60's era hippies, feminists, abolitionists, etc. for-profit media exists both to entertain and edify. such is life. so, why do you fall for it?

Although this is not a fair characterization of the movement to date, wild street "parties" have been part of the expression of deep popular discontent throughout time. During the middle ages, the populace took over religious festivals to dance, drink and taunt political power.

Don't be a rhetorical smart-ass, j_b. Your arguments won't get much traction with me if that is to be your approach. I am not being a smart ass. Seriously. Your asking where is the independent media doesn't make sense if you are aware of corporate media consolidation.

The media has gone out of its way to show the weird. It's well documented.

Exactly. Sleeping where they can't be ignored is fundamental to their gaining a voice.

So why are we not hearing the voice of the "independent" media? WhereWTF are they? I don't have a TV either (just like ivan), but I would love to see some coverage from a media outlet that shows that these people are organized, have a plan, and can represent themselves in a positive light. To date, it just looks like an all-night mosh pit/rave to me. People represent themselves as they are, which is a good thing since nobody can deny reality however unsightly it may be. The independent media is tiny. I assume you have heard of corporate media consolidation?

ha, yes. If only we could make the homeless disappear. They could take a shit in the woods and nobody would notice. I suspect nobody can deny anymore we have a homelessness problem, thanks to OWS.

Right, that's the face of the movement portrayed by the corporate media and it's working, apparently.

It's not easy to build a camp when authorities won't allow tents, generators, etc ..

i'm pretty certain in our modern poltical environment that the bonus army would have met a much more satisfactory ending can you cite when it has ever been the case that a popular movement got what it wanted without going through a repression phase? it doesn't mean they aren't peddling the unsanitary, dope peddling, gang friendly stories the rest of the time. It's not going to be easy to make people understand that people who are left on the street to die are evidence of the type of society that we don't want. the occupy movement is doing it and more, like occupying all centers of power, which gives a chance to act locally. it's not critical at this stage. There is a long road ahead.

is it the place of the cops to negotiate demands for nation and international political and economic reform? The police is used to break the movement so the 1% and their politicians won't have to negotiate. The movement will eventually find its political expression. It's not a matter of if but when. There are more discrete demands than they know what to do with. OWS represents the 99%, the overwhelming majority of which wants universal health care, jobs, raises in the minimum wage, etc ..