iain

You didn't like the way I played pool???

Those signs are made with some stiff plastic. Good luck. I noticed the Pole Creek TH sign is routinely sawed down.

What was meant by the snopark pass comment? I already pay for snopark passes. Do snowmobiles pay more for that in WA? Also, I would point out they sometimes bring in those enormous horsetrailers of 4 snowmobiles, which is partly the cause of overcrowding at TH parking lots (at least in Oregon, Dutchman's Flat being a marquee contender)

I don't think anyone questioned her professionalism. This issue doesn't seem to make sense at face value and people are trying to sort out the details. There is nothing wrong with that.

quote: Originally posted by Dennis Harmon: I'd suggest that very few people any more...(clip) Mt. Hood took plenty of lives in the early 1900's and onward. How early are we talking when you say "any more"?

even in it's current state, you could probably get more than a few bell 407's for the price of that pavehawk.

Yeah, I think we're thinking along the same lines. I think it's amazing how she can try to rationalize the current system (i.e., snowmobiles not requiring a permit because in winter the snow protects the land). Wouldn't the same be true for climbers? And it's not like the dirt underneath was really the issue here.

quote: Originally posted by Rodchester: ...just asking why the snowmobiles and snow cat weren't used first? We got one snowcat up to Devil's Kitchen (incredible). Subsequent cats only made it partway above the Palmer. It would be a long process to get everyone down to the cats, though many who were ambulatory were evac'd that way. It's easy to beat up a patient when skiing them down from the hogsback and setting up 3 lowering stations to get them down there takes some time. At the time, several patients were considered critical. At least one had received blunt trauma to the head. It was difficult to avoid calling an air evac. The Pavehawks/Blackhawks were within their operating ceiling. Challenging flying, but not necessarily cavalier. Perhaps a Chinook would have been a safer bet (they have been historically unavailable for fast response), but the decision for the 939th and Nat'l guard helicopters was sound. The crash was unfortunate, but the fact the Nat'l guard, with their unmodified Blackhawk, was willing to go back up there to continue is testament to the fact that it was within the margin of safety. I would point out that there was very nearly another downed helicopter when an empty litter was being lowered w/o a tagline from a Nat'l guard blackhawk. If you go back and watch a video of it, you can see it whip around and almost escape the rotor wash and loop over the top. That would have been a true disaster. I'm not saying all decisions made up there were the best ones, but we were working hard to do the best we could, from basic rigging, to triage, to the big decisions. -Iain

They've got Shimanski from MRA on now though, he's good stuff.

quote: Originally posted by allison: Somebody call in, this is LAME! LAME? This is hilarious! Two years minimum training before you touch Mt. Hood, ya hear me? Does everyone in New Hampshire think this way?

If you will be holding a sponsored slideshow, I can hook you up with the directions to the store. Love, TNF BYO powerbar cookies. Cytomax punchbowl will be present. Don't mess with the ominous Pilot Butte. It is dangerous and cold.

quote: Originally posted by crazypolishbob: this one is a human stupidity at its best. This is so tired. There's been enough pointless trash talk and should-have's about this accident. You were not there. You don't know these people. Yes, it's suspicious that they couldn't arrest the fall. Leave it. Did you register here to fabricate this diatribe for us to enjoy? Do you hold up every climbing party at The Chute so that you can descend below the schrund w/o a team above you? If not, go practice some self-arrest with a few people falling on you, and see how you fair.

Yes, because of the investigation. There are air force reserve bivying up high to protect the scene. The reason for the 9000 foot circle is most likely to avoid pushing people to descend other routes. That's my guess.

Just to clarify, the entire mountain above ~9000 ft is off limits at this time, any route. I do not have any information of when it will reopen.

Ahh, homo habilis trollensius caught in its native environment! Not a rare find, but one that continues to raise the pulse a touch. Quality trolling.

quote: Originally posted by Rodchester: Lots of maybe, maybe, maybe, going on here.... Iain wrote: "she was taking an introductory mtn'ing course." Lib Ridge as an intro...hmmmm. That was over a year ago. Whether a year's worth of experiences are enough for Liberty Ridge? Dunno. It looks like Memorial Day vacation syndrome more than anything. "I've scheduled this climb for this 3-day weekend, and we're going to tough it out". OSU students seem to have made a habit out of getting in trouble on Liberty Ridge at this time.

I'm not sure what it was like at 0900, but it was getting slushy during the rescue effort. Shaded areas were reasonably solid, good arresting material, but sun exposure made for some slush on top of an icier layer. In my opinion, a party of 3 or 4 should have been able to make the stop, but it would be unfair for me to say that with certainty. I've always been alarmed by parties above me when descending the south side. I'm more nervous there than on other, more difficult routes on the mountain. I've never roped up there. I'm very sorry this had to happen.

If it interests you, PMR has some photos from our point of view. Click here. [ 05-31-2002, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: iain ]

I just returned from that rescue. The scene up at the hogsback was surreal. Helicopter blades everywhere and an upside down carcass of an H60 lying at the base of a streak of debris down the left side. There are currently PJs bivied up high to secure the site. I don't know if you will be allowed to climb there tomorrow. The pilot must be commended. The crash could have killed many of us, but he veered off to avoid it.

The party consisted of Oregon State Univ. mountaineering club members. Hardly out of towners. I've met the woman who died, she was taking an introductory mtn'ing course. Don't know about the others. Liberty Ridge epics seem to be a fairly common with OSU students.

Damn, not sure if I can get the day off on Fri, but I'd be up for Wy'East over Leuthold. I have to be there on Fri anyways around 9pm.

I am a ruminant and have my own udder. I eat alfalfa sandwiches every day for lunch and my roommates hate me for dropping cow pies all over the place and re-chewing my own puke. Moo.

Just wait a few years.

I agree with Dru. I hope this does not cause you to dwell on the negatives of climbing. We all know the dangers, particularly those of us who have had close calls or have lost someone before. Bad things happen to good people sometimes. Clearly you were not in a position to help. -Iain

quote: Originally posted by erik: either way! dey still reperzent da same thing... Fine, I'll only wear a non-child labor organic hemp poncho that I got on barter for a block of cheese and some churned butter on all my climbs from now on so that I can justify my above statement.