iain

The answer is hybrid poplars, and lots of them.

I am trying a vanilla coke right now for the first and last time.

I don't see anyone really disagreeing with anyone else here, but confusion. You run your rope through a carabiner attached to pro and someone pitches, the pro experiences the force of the fall x the mech advantage of the simple pulley. In an ideal fbd this would be 2:1. As said before, there is flex in the rope, movement of the belayer, friction in the biner based on width etc. etc. to drop this force, but it is nevertheless multiplied. I believe Loren is saying if you use your belay anchor in this manner, as a directional, the belay anchor will be submitted to multiplied forces, just like anything else. There is simply no question in this.

Okay so there's twice the force on the pro then (20N). I think that's all that was to be made clear.

Here There's 10N on each strand if the weight is to remain stationary but 20N on the anchor in this image. Agreed?

Wouldn't you agree if you replaced an ideal pulley for the quickdraw and you had a climber with force T falling and a secured belay on the other side that there would be a force of 2T on the pro? I'm not sure I see where you're going, whether you agree or disagree with this. If you just tied the rope to the draw, you would only have T on the pro.

perfect for the shrooming road trip through the Canyonlands.

How about Moonshine Dihedral at Smith (5.9)? Is that considered a decent crack? Not a lot of jamming or anything but beautiful to climb.

I don't know, where you watching me when those activities took place? Where was your outrage? I don't think you were yelling at Reno to get her ass over to the PNW to deal with it. Maybe there even was a serious federal investigation if all of these activities were linked togehter, I simply don't know. Thanks for the judgement of my opinions in advance of even knowing them though. I was certainly outraged when ELF sabotaged the GMO Poplar crop at Oregon State. I don't think Reno's personal beliefs had anything to do with any inaction on the justice department. Frankly, I don't think Janet Reno gives a crap about PNW forests one way or the other, and any inaction was simply due to indifference. You're pigeonholing as usual.

fire suppression experts:

Greg please compare to the other 3 individuals. "you get a coupla pig-men running around and all of a sudden I don't look so bad" - Costanza, Seinfeld.

logging stinks!

Here's Gale Norton belaying some fool out near the monument!

hold on let me take some notes here...

check the lastest posts in "paranoid" for men in skirts and sorels.

whoops, now I am redundant

I think he means you effectively have a 2:1 pulley system by running the rope through the belay as a directional.

hmm I don't see any socks under those Sorels either....STINKFOOT

Greg, even though "separation of church and state" does not literally appear in the first amendment, I think "no law respectiing an establishment of religion" is close enough to get the meaning across. Jefferson and Madison seemed quite clear on this. Should we also throw out the idea of a "fair trial" because it is not literally in the constitution as well? Secondly, there may well have been a religious background to the founders but the case is pretty strong that they made every effort to prevent official recognition of any religion, namely, Christianity.

the "liberal puke" you are responding to just made clear he is a moderate republican.

Well he has once again worn me down to the point I just don't care anymore.

Ashcroft freely admits that if he could pass a single law, it would be to outlaw abortion in cases of rape and incest. He attempted several times to restrict a woman's legal right to choose an abortion by finding cases in which that was not the main issue and forcing them upward through various layers of appeals to the Supreme Court. When a federal court ordered St. Louis to present plans for voluntary desegregation of public schools, Ashcroft resisted. The court eventually had to threaten contempt of court if it failed to meet the deadline. The judge was quoted, "the court can draw only one conclusion -- the state has, as a matter of deliberate policy, decided to defy the authority of the court." He is on record wanting to ban birth control. He opposes sex education vehemently. I am not suggesting for a second that he is not entitled to these opinions. I am just saying it is not appropriate to have an attorney general who is so extreme on such delicate hot-button issues that clearly divide this country, enforcing our laws through the department of justice. There are plenty of more moderate republicans who would be better suited for the job, rather than this backward individual who divides the country with this prehistoric stuff. MtnGoat: I can barely tell what you are saying in your last post so I can't really give a good response. I would just say I am a bit of a realist and I'm not going to do anything because some ancient dusty book or scrolls of commandments told me to. I would expect the same from my government, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

Calling a form of transportation "pussy" reveals a lot. do people really feel they are badass by driving an f-350 or inadequate driving a yugo? That stuff makes me laugh. Americans are stupid sometimes.