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I think sometimes people forget we are all talking about the same species of animal. It's liek arguing that a lyon is less dangerous than a tiger.

I get really tired of this BS. Bully breeds are more dangerous. When a Lab goes crazy, he or she gives someone a little nip. It's bad, but a couple of stitches fixes stuff up. When a Bull goes crazy, death and destruction follows. Bully breeds are the cannine equivalent of Ghengis Khans Mongol hoards. Labs are primarily concerned with fetching, being friends, swimming, being friends, fetching, being friends, and more swimming. go on and believe what the media want you to believe.

I totally agree with that statement. i now have to google a britney spanial... I am not familiare with the breed Luv ya Muff Luv you too Bug

I grew up with Boxers and my hunny grew up with Mastiffs. we are very familiar with bully breeds. i am not a fan of any dog being off leash. some don't need to be leashed but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be. but then i don't like other peoples kids to walk up to me either. they don't bite (usually) but it is still awkward. The bully breed dogs that i have known were absolutely docile unless they thought that someone in their family was in any kind of danger. I had no doubt as a kid that Lady would not let anyone in the house who would hurt me. yet my ritual with her every morning was to lay down on the floor in the morning so we could wrestle and she would lick my face. my mom babysat kids and Lady would just sit there when the kids would paw all over her and pull her ears. Mom mom ran with Lady every morning. she was well behaved on a leash and would sit by my mom's foot if any other dog was around. she was not very socialized and I think I will do that differently. I would like my dog to be more social. however, I will not ever leave my dog tied in front of a store, or at the bottom of a climb. that is not fair to the dog or the other people around. (I am really excited to get a dog ) So if you want a dog to play nice with the kids, get a lab. The question is what do you get with "pit" that you wouldn't get with less aggressive breed.....why risk it? Given the litigious nature of our society, are you really going to trust your family's financial future to a dog's ability to rightly judge "when someone in their family was in any kind of danger". The breed is not agressive they are protective. I don't care for Labs. Bully breeds are no more a risk than any other dog. they require training and like any other breed if they are too inbred they are more likely to no function well in society. as far as the protective nature of some breeds Mastiffs Boxers Pitbulls Rots and others, they were specificly bred to go to war (mastifs and rots) Bull mastiffs were bred to attack people who were tresspassing. It is in their breeding to know when someone is not suposed to be on the property. I am fully aware of how you and other uneducated people view bully breed dogs and frankly i am totaly uninterested. The only dogs i have ever seen attack inappropriately were not bully breed. one was indeed a black lab that nearly tore the face of it's owners child. so there. Muff...I'm hardly uneducated, but we can compare pedigrees via PM if you'd like. Agression is due to both nature and nurture....so my point was why would you want a dog that you had to train to not be a lethal weapon given all the other options out there. I've not yet heard a person list a strength of the "bully breeds" that isn't present in spades in other less aggressive breeds. Can you list some positive traits of pit bulls and will see if they are somehow unique? Once will biking down the Burke Gilman (at the park near bothel), I came upon quite a spectacle. Two pitbulls, apparently from the same litter, on a forked leash, in a death match, tethered together by the same leash that the frantic screaming sobbing owner was walking them with not 2 minutes earlier. Apparently something triggered a disaggreement, and they both "snapped". She tried in vain for 3 minutes to separate them while their blood was running all over the paved trail. Finally, after 5 minutes, someone heeded my advice (I might have stepped in myself but I was in bike cleats and not particularly nimble) and dragged the duo by the leash into the lake until they could no longer touch bottom and they had to separate or drown. Actually one slipped it's collar and swam to shore, and once secured, the other was carried in. I think they both lived, but it was pretty traumatic to them and everyone within a 300 yard radius. Every since, I've been pretty down on pitbulls. Of course, not all breeds have the wow value of a pit bull, but if you need a dog to look cool, you've got problems. so you are telling me you are judging a whole group of breeds by one experience? I could list the singled minded desire to please thier owner the affection they show twords chidren in thier family thier inttelegence I like that they are active but not bouncy and over active like most labs but none of that will ever change your mind just like nothing will ever remove the vision of a small child having it's face removed by a black lab. I like american bull dogs boxers mastifs bull mastifs rotuilers amstaff terriors pit bulls (there is a differnece... there are acutaly 3 breeds that most people confuse with "pit bulls" to name a few... all of my best dog experiences have been with these breeds of dog. It isn't about WOW factor it is about personal preference. I love how bullys have lots of skin and it lends this expressiveness to thier face that other dogs just do not have. it makes my heart pitter patter. I love theri floppy sloppy jowls and that when they drink every one with in 10 feet will get a bath if they arn't careful. it makes me laugh with they grin becuase many of them do. They have this sweet little under bite (boxers) and sometimes they just grin at you and look right in your eyes to your soul. they are silly and funny and often stay puppy like well into thier 3rd year. The boxer i grew up wtih had sweet puppy triats until she dies at 14. I lover how when they are excited they all wag thier tails so hard they wag thier butts. all of the bully breed dogs i have known have been important valued members of thier families. they are the type of dog that you never have to wonder if they love you becasue they go out of thier way to show you a million times a day.

That is a beautiful Hunting/Gun dog.

I totally agree with that statement. i now have to google a britney spanial... I am not familiare with the breed

Care to explain the difference between 'breed' and 'breeding'? Both positive and negative temperamental traits are ABSOLUTELY heritable. Proper nurturing goes a long way though. Most dogs with a genetic predisposition to aggressiveness are quite loving and friendly, even to strangers, due to proper upbringing. Breeding = direct haritage.... the traits of the dogs unique liniage, parents grandparents etc. Breed = a type of dog that covers all dogs of that type

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Or insert dogs, cannons, hand grenades, atom bombs. If I see someone walking my way with one of those things in their hand, it makes me nervous. Throw all the "yeah butts" out there you want. If you have a bully breed, why not get a non-bully breed and buy a gun? Strap it to you side. You ca get permits you know? That way if someone gets hurt by something you own, you have complete control. Ignorance is a horrible thing. So are out of control dogs that can latch onto a throat and never let go until they are dead. you are correct they can latch on and lock thier jaw. however they are no more dangerous than any other breed of dog. how do you know i don't have a concealed weapons permit? maybe i do the problem with depending on a gun for protection is that it is more likely that they person atacking me will beable to wrest the gun from my grip and then kill me with my own weapon. DOgs are not weapons. they are creatures who deserve our love and understanding care respect attention etc etc. YOu my dear Bug are breedist. thats the same as being racist if you ask me.( i like dogs way more than i like people)

I thought we would have all firgured out how to friction off moss by now sorry to derail the thred :kisss:

in the news right now that is all you will see. There is a massive campainge to have all bully breeds irraticated. There are trying to pass legislation in California that even if your dog has never shown a bit of agression that all bullys must be put down "just in case" it is bull shit. it is not the breed but but the dogs BREEDING, owner, training and experince that determin temperment. period.

I would've. On seeing the title Huge fall at Smith: first thought = hundreds of feet second thought = then it would have been "fatality at Smith" I was thinking 80+ or fatality too... Thats what i was thinking. I have held a fall that was over 20' and pulled me up to where i was eye level with the climbers feet (I was more little at the time). thats just a day in the park at smiff. no matter how short or long the fall, it is heart stoping to see someone take a good sized whipper. more so on gear than on bolts IMHO.

actually i decided a good old-fashioned bleeding would work best to relieve the excessive humors from my spleen - if that doesn't work i'm gonna fucking kill some heathens as a token of my submission to the boundless love of bog if that doesn't work try the voodoo that is accupuncture.... I have no idea why or how it works but it does.

I grew up with Boxers and my hunny grew up with Mastiffs. we are very familiar with bully breeds. i am not a fan of any dog being off leash. some don't need to be leashed but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be. but then i don't like other peoples kids to walk up to me either. they don't bite (usually) but it is still awkward. The bully breed dogs that i have known were absolutely docile unless they thought that someone in their family was in any kind of danger. I had no doubt as a kid that Lady would not let anyone in the house who would hurt me. yet my ritual with her every morning was to lay down on the floor in the morning so we could wrestle and she would lick my face. my mom babysat kids and Lady would just sit there when the kids would paw all over her and pull her ears. Mom mom ran with Lady every morning. she was well behaved on a leash and would sit by my mom's foot if any other dog was around. she was not very socialized and I think I will do that differently. I would like my dog to be more social. however, I will not ever leave my dog tied in front of a store, or at the bottom of a climb. that is not fair to the dog or the other people around. (I am really excited to get a dog ) So if you want a dog to play nice with the kids, get a lab. The question is what do you get with "pit" that you wouldn't get with less aggressive breed.....why risk it? Given the litigious nature of our society, are you really going to trust your family's financial future to a dog's ability to rightly judge "when someone in their family was in any kind of danger". The breed is not agressive they are protective. I don't care for Labs. Bully breeds are no more a risk than any other dog. they require training and like any other breed if they are too inbred they are more likely to no function well in society. as far as the protective nature of some breeds Mastiffs Boxers Pitbulls Rots and others, they were specificly bred to go to war (mastifs and rots) Bull mastiffs were bred to attack people who were tresspassing. It is in their breeding to know when someone is not suposed to be on the property. I am fully aware of how you and other uneducated people view bully breed dogs and frankly i am totaly uninterested. The only dogs i have ever seen attack inappropriately were not bully breed. one was indeed a black lab that nearly tore the face of it's owners child. so there.

I never said i was perfect, just that i am willing to mark up the things that i see

I would bet your calf hurts because you are walking differently (even if it doesn't feel like you are) because of the weak tendon. our bodies compensate for injuries in interesting ways. go see a massage therapist and try to work out some of the tightness in your calf... I too have a foam roller. they are like a session in a torture chamber but they do help. man people think i cuss a lot when i climb, you should hear me on the roller.

if you want an extra person to read threw with a red pen let me know. I really want to print this and hand it to my trainer and say "here make me do this"

I grew up with Boxers and my hunny grew up with Mastiffs. we are very familiar with bully breeds. i am not a fan of any dog being off leash. some don't need to be leashed but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be. but then i don't like other peoples kids to walk up to me either. they don't bite (usually) but it is still awkward. The bully breed dogs that i have known were absolutely docile unless they thought that someone in their family was in any kind of danger. I had no doubt as a kid that Lady would not let anyone in the house who would hurt me. yet my ritual with her every morning was to lay down on the floor in the morning so we could wrestle and she would lick my face. my mom babysat kids and Lady would just sit there when the kids would paw all over her and pull her ears. Mom mom ran with Lady every morning. she was well behaved on a leash and would sit by my mom's foot if any other dog was around. she was not very socialized and I think I will do that differently. I would like my dog to be more social. however, I will not ever leave my dog tied in front of a store, or at the bottom of a climb. that is not fair to the dog or the other people around. (I am really excited to get a dog )

Mikey, I finished going threw this manual. WOW what an incredible collection of information, experience, ideas and advice. Truly Brilliant. I did find a couple of spelling and grammatical errors (weird huh?) but i am nit picky. I think my favorite part, the part that made me laugh out loud... was the suggestions for the first aid kit it falls right in line with the Muffy theory on climbing... "Always be the weakest/slowest member of the party" the nutrition part part was very informational.it made me realize how i cold eat all i wanted to when i was climbing regularly, becuase i was putting out so much more energy then i could fuel on those active days. it seems like i was naturally storing and using storing and using. I kinda knew that but i had never seen a mathematical equation to spell it out. I know it is dorky but i do want a signed copy of this. Your brilliance makes me happy. xoxoxooxox Muffy p.s. we should talk soon about my health. I am doing quite a bit better. I am on new meds and i have been doing acupuncture. it is amazing!!! still not climbing but i can at least work out some and hike a little bit.

no way that was way more fun than work

my youngest son was bit by a dog at a crag. the dog was normally really chill. we had been petting the dog and hanging out with him prior to the incident. we had seen the dog there before, the guy who owned the dog was a pretty cool guy. it was terrifying and unfortunate. i am really glad my son isn't scared emotionally or physically. having been around dogs my whole life we didn't panic. we took it in stride and thing two was not damaged. --- dogs do not belong at the crag. unless of course you bring a third person to watch the dog just like you would (should) with a child. side note, we are getting a dog soon. I fell in love with 2 over the weekend, one was a pit boxer mix and one was a pit...I wanted to bring them both home. I love dogs. I will take my dog to the park to the dog park to the ocean hiking walking running camping but not cragging unless i have a dog sitter. dogs do not get what the hell we are doing way up there where they can't get to us and for some dogs it is really unsettling.

it sounds like your dog does not belong at the crag period. very very few dogs have any business being at the crag. and the ones who should be there are beyond exceptional. dogs like people are never 100% predictable. if you think you know your dog, think again. if a dog feels threatened or vulnerable it will respond violently to protect it's self... just like most people.

hmmmmm I used to post 8 hours a day and now i work.

I didn't even catch that

thats it the world is really coming to and end

I always aim high... that way when I fail I can say it is becuase it was too hard I am still working on reading this. Hope to be threw it by the end of the weekend and I will have more to say then. I do have some comments about things I like. I love that the writing is how you talk. It is plain, honest and that comes through. Your style reminds me of John Long who i would read just to read even if the text had nothing to do with anything I am interested in. I think pictures and diagrams will help a ton. I am a retard and i need visual aids. I think it would be awsome to have a section about aid climbing. I have not given up totaly on learning to do that one day p.s. if you can train away my rope management issues (that i have had since i started climbing) that would be really amazing