DavidW

The new Darrington Guidebook is finally complete! It's all on a disk for this one, and runs on either a Mac or a PC. The interactive format has pitch-by-pitch route descriptions, scores of color photo's, printable topo's to over a hundred routes, printable locator photo's with route lines and even short AVI movieclips. There's over 350 pitches of rock climbing described! It'll be available Monday, 11/10/03 at Pro Mountain Sports or you can check it out and order it now at www.DarringtonRock.com Many thanks to all of you at CC.com that shared information, pics and stories!

Sorry to hear someone had an unpleasant experience at Static. It sounds like Ice Climber got a fairly clear consensus with regard to adding new bolts to routes up there however. While the prevailing ethic in North America has been that first ascent styles be preserved, every little thing that a couple of trad guys with a drill might have done doesnt automatically deserve "shrine" or protected status either. When a route has been climbed continuously for 20 years however, had pictures in calendars and "route of the month" pages in national mags it's probably safest to assume that a good number of people find the arrangement of the route and its bolts to be satisfactory. I'd have to agree that the retro bolting done on Online was somewhat crude, but it did make the route something that many people have come to enjoy and the integrity of the original route was totally perserved. There are a number of other excellent routes at Static that could certainly use upgraded hardware and I've stated before that I'm willing to go and lend a hand in the process. Send me an email! Iceclimber its not assholes saying "if you dont like it climb somewhere else" its just a broader view. Many people regularly rock climb all over the US and Canada and if they can't do a route, they dont change it..... they just move on to find something more to their taste. There's millions to choose from in every imaginable flavor! I think the Thread has been pretty clear in that you don't alter the character of the existing climbs. I'd like to ad that if you are upgrading old gear use the highest quality you can afford..... stainless steel only please. Check out the hardware on Fuddhat or whats being installed in the Darrington area for a suggestion about what works in the washington drool. Good to hear everyone's having a good time at The Point!

Dante's sounds like a good choice from my perspective.... a night in hell would certainly be in order.

Thanks Dave..... the book will work sort of like a website although it'll all be contained on one disk...... there will be links back and forth to photo's and maps etc. Working out just how thats gonna wark is where I am now....

as I've mentioned before I had a rappel sling failure put me in the hospital for several months....... still i've been trying to understand what happened here...... Stefan in your opening post you stated: " I set up another rappel around a previous anchor sling at the subsidiary station." Does that mean mean that there was one more sling in the anchor photographed and that that sling is now missing? And you didnt add any slings? You merely selected the best from the group and used it? you didnt add one and tie your own knot or anything? For what its worth my accident happened in 1973..... I've been climbing ever since but still get some twinges of fear at less than optimal stations..... its manageable and will lessen with time. Best wishes for a speedy recovery however and thanks for your patience with this thread!

It's one of my favorite places of all time.... but what happens to the money if they dont get enough to ultimately buy the land?

My best to Stefan and wish him a speedy recovery..... I havent been able to make much sense of this however..... what was the "anchor"? Fixed pins? Rock horn? Chockstone? Having survived a rappel failure myself I'm pretty curious...... how is it that people who picked up the gear havent been able to ascertain what happened?

Hmmmmmm maybe my calendar has hooked one too many "enhanced" flakes but..... ummmm... isnt 11/12/02 a Tuesday??

well a bogus knot is what nearly got me..... if the anchor had failed then the sling would still be attached to the rap line. Allison says the sling was not recovered which suggests that somehow the rope became detached from it. Cut, broken or untied are the only choices right?

Man you sure picked the Mystery route of the decade.... as far as I can tell it was only a nebulous report in the WashingtonRock guide back in 1980..... it seems all knowledge since then is just fantasy built on this single sentence. I'll provide a six-pack of Mike's Hard Lemonade and an autographed picture of Mattp for anyone who can come up with a topo on this one...... some restrictions apply..... see below for details. lol

So nobody know's nuthin huh? Past history tells me I'll get a whole host of PM's when the thing actually is available. Thanks to you coupla dudes who have sent me PM's this time tho. I'm crankin' on it every day now.....

I've been up there a few times in the summer, playing on the slabs that extend rightwards across the bottom of the whole mountain...... As Mattp points out the only reason the ice is there is that the whole mountain dumps snow, rocks and ice down that zone. One day in the fall I watched avalanches pour down there every few minutes and in the summer its a veritable bowling alley for rocks....lotsa tourists wander around out there and I've seen more than one group stand and gape as TV set sized rocks bounded down the slope around them.

Many parties climb Denali in June but the bottom half of the West Buttress route turns into a pretty serious adventure in avoiding crevasses...... as the glacier melts out in summer the remains of all the traffic..... poop and pee stains can get pretty unsightly, and of course at that time of year there really isnt much night at all and the temperature variation for the evening hours may not be enough at the lower elevations to consolidate much. It all varies from year to year tho.... Talk to Paul Denkewalter at Alaska Mountaineering & Hiking in Anchorage for any really specific info.

With regard to R-51, I heard a commentator on TV pose the question: If you dont like the way someone is doing business, do you tell them before you give them the money...... or after?

As some of you may be aware a new guide for the Darrington area is in the final stages of production. Some areas are better documented than others and there's still a chance to contribute tidbits of info and pictures! At this point there will be almost 100 routes in the guide. I'm planning on producing the book on a disk....... and so far the plans are to combine text, topo's, photo's and AVI movies in an interactive format that should prove to be fun and affordable. so....... if you're a computer wizard and wanna see your name on an obscure publication about a useless sport then send me a PM! Beyond that........ There's some great routes up there put up by unknown persons...... if youve ever put up a route in Darrington please get in touch! Specifically I'm looking for information about the following areas: 1. Any routes on Witch Doctor Wall 2. Any routes on Squire Creek Wall 3. Any routes on the Comb Buttress 4. The mythical route called the "Scar" on Blueberry Hill

Hell, I need a drink BEFORE I vote.... and speaking of voting..... wouldnt the Pig and Whistle be appropriate?

I once spent a half hour jumping on a three foot crow bar to get a 1/4" bolt out! I don' think a tie rod tool has enough elevation to the wedge to get the active part of the bolt out of the rock. I had a friend cut a slot in a wood splitting wedge so that I'd get about 2" of lift out of the thing but it weighs about 3 pounds and I broke my hammer bashing on it! Maybe those guys who pulled the bolts out of Dan's Dreadful on Castle Rock could offer some advice but if it takes that much force to get the bolt out maybe the best thing would be to just cut off the protruding part as matt suggests and leave it as is.

I'd firstly like to applaud anyone who takes the initative to make old climbs safer. There's no doubt that both the routes in question have been sadly in need of attention for some time. It is my uninformed opinion that a 3/8" (or 10mm) bolt imbedded to the same depth as the old bolts would probably be more than an improvement over the old anchor, especially considering the slab terrain. I'd like to raise another issue here that doesnt really affect safety but one of esthetics. Having come from an era when any bolt placements were considered marginally unethical I have made choices for many years that are directly related to visability from a distance. The reason I chose the Leeper hangers for those routes and indeed the reason we chose not to put up the route immediately right of Online (Rightline?) was one of visual esthetics. We felt at the time that bolts all over the place diminished the experience. The Leeper hangers were employed because they were black and not shiny like the SMC hangers which were the only other choice of the day. In Darrington (for instance) there is a political imperative for not having bolts become too visible or attracting any kind of undue attention. At Static Point it is doubtful that any anti-climber types will ever view the bolts in question but I'd like to humbly ask that any restoration personnel consider using Enviro-Hangers of a grey or dark color and not to use shiny plated chains at the belay stations. Some of my friends and I have been installing powder-coated Fixe rappel anchors (the kind with two hangers, a bit of chain and a large diameter welded ring) and believe they are a reliable and safe anchor. This colored hanger idea is really the only soapbox I feel compelled to climb on. I personally cant claim much "ownership" of these routes any longer...... I put them up almost 20 years ago and believe that they have long since passed into the realm of public domain. Certainly the higher issue here is replacement of dangerous gear and I'd like to express gratitude that there are those with the vision to spend their time and money keeping them current.

hey sorry I missed all this but my attentions were elsewhere friday afternoon! Yea I've been putting in about 12 hours a week on the guidebook for close to 8 months now. And of course I'd welcome any information from anyone about any route up there. I'm still planning on having the thing available some time in the spring..... perhaps march or april but as long as its sunny and dry out I'm still managing to collect information. I'd very much appreciate information, pics or topo's, for some of the following: 1. the two Gunstone routes on the Comb 2. anything on the Witch Dr. Wall side of Exfo Dome. 3. the two 5.11 routes on the left side of 3 Oclock 4. anything on Squire Creek 5. that mythical route "the scar" on Blueberry I have some info on all of these but ascents are so rare that I seldom if ever hear of people who have climbed these routes.

damn!.... i knew i should have posted that under an alias!

Ok...... I'll take a stab at jumping into this mess of wisdom and slander. I'm 47 years old and have been climbing since I was 17. At the end of my first year of climbing I clipped into a rappel I'd personally set up using equipment supplied by the school I attended in Switzerland. The rappel sling was tied incorrectly and I would have to say its my fault for not realizing it even tho I was a student. The sling didnt stay tied and I went 60', bounced off a ledge went another 20' and broke nearly every bone in my body.... severely fractured skull, several crushed vertabrae, split my pelvis in half and broke alot of other stuff that is somewhat less important. I got a pretty big lesson in infant mortality that day and my back still hurts 1/2 the time. (especially sitting in this chair all day reading these threads!) So Anna...... ask yourself what you want from climbing, read everything you can possibly get your hands on about gear placement, put them in the bathroom and read them over and over and over..... walk around your house looking for places to slot pro, learn to think gear. (the space between my refrigerator and the wall currently has a #8 hexcentric hanging there) Then find a supportive partner and pick leads you could probably solo and make a game of seeing how much pro you can possibly place. (ok ok... watch for rope drag too!) I've spent my whole life battling with the baggage from that day in 1973. It's been worth it.... climbing's brought me good health, the best of friends and a lifetime of great travels. Just make learning a priority and enjoy yourself with good company.

I believe i bought the Yates "load limiter" variety....... instead of successive, individual bar tacks..... "yank-Rip, yank-Rip" etc... the stiching is arranged in the same direction as the force and in a continous line so there is not the staccato, force and release effect. The thing did indeed pull all the way out and become a regular length sling albiet with tons of purple "fur" from all the blown stitching! With regard to ice screws..... I think there has been some differing points of view on this but I thought that at least one time Chouinard published some diagrams showing screws inclined about 10-15 degrees uphill from perpendicular to the ice. That seems like it makes sense to me and hey.... i'm still here but am certainly not a physicist.

the first and only time i ever took a leader fall ice climbing I was 15' above a screw I thought was as good as they get...... ie: excellent ice, proper placement, correct angle, etc etc...... the result of the fall was that the screamer was totally extended..... the screw bent at something more than a 45-degree angle and the ice all around the screw shattered and gone....... when I saw it I was totally surprised that it had, in fact held me. My second later removed it with a couple of wiggles...... so if thats what happens to a well placed screw in good ice...... well, it boggles the mind doesnt it? Also should point out that I was using twin rope technique with a pair of mammut 8.5mm dry ropes...... much softer catch than in the old days with big fat 11mm's

I'd attach it to the questionable piece.... if there were gonna be several questionable pieces and I had only one screamer I'd try and decide which piece posed the greater threat of hitting something if it failed.

interesting questions and discussions all but I'm surprised no one has mentioned screamers or load limiiters or any of the numerous "exploding" quick draw products. Me being a relatively large individual (190#) I've often had my doubts about even well placed pieces of gear.... especially ice screws and brass nuts. I am extremely reluctant to take falls on gear leads and don't recommend anyone make a habit of it, still I'm pretty certain the reason I'm here to join this discussion is that I used Yates load limiters.... on two occasions I've been stopped just above the ground pieces that I'm certain would have blown with a conventional quick draw approach. Sure, they are goofy looking...... but really not very heavy or awkward. I tend to use them on EVERY ice screw, and sometimes have one or two on my rack for clipping rusty old bolts, skanky fixed gear or small stoppers.