scott_harpell

What about TRable routes? See? It is not so simple.

Rockfall... what happens if the rope gets stuck in a crack 200 feet off the deck... ect

If that is the case... then why is everyone over there shitting on Subaru about the bolts they placed?

That is why I don't as a rule do these climbs. As you say, I just don't see the point, but if you do...the question I ask you is: Why not set up a TR is possible.

No... it really isn't

I would like to climb 5.14......but I don't want to spend the time to get there....hence I know I will never get there.... but some folks do want to eventually get to that grade...is it any more necessarily right to impose YOUR style and its corresponding limitations on them as it for them to impose their's on you? I would say there is some contradiction there....

Not if you can TR... which was my point. Where... oh where... did I ever say that? I don't think anyone is a pussy. I just believe in having the least amount of impact without being wreckless. That is all... where you got this superfluous stuff... I don't know.

I don't disagree, but I feel you have made the implication that in sport climbing, part of the actual climb is figuring out how you are going to clip the bolt. This, to me, seems rather contrived if avoidance of this is possible (via TR). To me, climbing is well... climbing... It seems to you that the definition could not be separated from the use of bolts because these bolts add an extra element (ie make it harder) to the climb. I on the other hand find these things to be a distraction and unfortunately sometimes a necessary evil.

...but DFA, I don't like placing pro. I would rather just climb... I place gear when I am afraid of splatting. I don't think of placing gear or clipping bolts as a part of climbing, but rather as a necessary evil to ward off gravity. The less I have to do it, the happier I am.

No, it is necessity so you don't splat if you fuck up.

So... it isn't about actually climbing a certain route or for training purposes... as RUMR stated... it is about the experience involved... Make it "scary" by leading? Is that the rationale for bolting TRable climbs? If you are just looking for a penalty for fucking up a route... why not just add some penalty slack? Or are you implying that clipping bolts is part of the climbing experience? I thought that bouldering and free soloing were the most 'pure' ascents because you don't have to stop and place gear. Wouldn't that make TRing preferable to Leading? You can concentrate only on the moves and technique involved rather then on clipping a bolt?

Shit, why pound pins or trundle loose rock to get to good pro or stain big walls with piss from long ascents when you could just TR them with 6000' static lines anchored to organic, sustainably harvested, tree-farmed birch hexes placed lovingly in Mother Nature's own secret granite slots? i.e. shut up and climb, nitpicker. Your hyperbole doesn't address my implied question: What does it matter if you are leading a bolt ladder vs. TRing something? Machismo? Bragging rights?

Why put in bolts that are not necessary? I don't see any reason to do this. So someone can get machismo jollies off the fact taht they weren't a pussy and led up a bolt ladder instead of TRing it?

Yes

I think the issue is this RUMR... if you can avoid bolting (either through natural protection or TRing) you should do it. You gave examples where this is not possible and that is fine, but I think when putting up a route... thinking less is better than more is a good idea and avoiding bolts if possible si the best solution.

exactly... that is what i am talking about.

if you can't climb 5.9 then you CAN'T climb 5.10! What does mode of protection have to do with it? If you have to bolt the shit out of it and hang doggggg up the thing... That is the issue...

$2 dollar a gallon gas tax to pay for our new monorail!

Stephan... it is not the first crack that I am looking at, but rather the corner crack. If you put a nut in the first crack it'd be pretty good I would wager, but it would only protect your first move... then what are ya gonna do? Plus... look at the crack... if you think you cn even reach it you are dreaming.

That corner seam looks really protectable

Everyone is in on it!!!! Huge nation-wide polling conspiracy!!!!!

JB... their prediction with a twelve point margin... bush was only 4% less than that in the actual vote... here is the graph you can see he went from 52 to 48 percent. A whopping 4%

A bolt should never be placed near a protectable crack. Period. D.D.D. is a classic example of the climbing communities disdain for this practice.