Geek_the_Greek

Based on the overly flat surroundings in the photo, I would say that was taken at the Thunder Bay, ON base, no?

My two cents: Don't rename the route. Route names, other than the descriptive, are whimsical pieces of absurdist art, one of the accepted means of self-expression for first ascentionists. I reckon (guess) that Göran would not particularly want to violate that tradition. I think the memorial idea is ok, but maybe a bit heavy-handed right at the base. The classiest and most evocative climbing memorial I have seen is Memorial Ledge on the Squamish Chief. Not everyone sees it - just climbers, usually those who go out of their way a bit to go there, to see a beautiful place. I don't know if the Coulee has anything similar (somewhere obscure on Agaltha tower? Somewhere on top of the Mesa?), but maybe something could be found, maybe somewhere a bit special, or a place Göran particularly enjoyed. On the other hand, I certainly wouldn't be offended or bothered by a plaque or carving at the base. For what it's worth, I've climbed the route, but am out of state now and won't be able to look at the carving for a few months, likely.

Nice tick list, Dru. Looks like you're still exploring semi-remote obscure alpine choss piles in SW BC! May we all be so lucky! Ah, heck I'm just jealous. Mind you, I still don't agree with you about that 'hardcore' article a few years back, but I wish we had done more stuff together when I was in BC. Like Joni Mitchell said "you don't know what you've got 'till it's gone". Maybe I'll see you in Skaha. -D.

I used to believe shit like "when in doubt, run it out". I'm glad I figured out what moronic advice this is.

While sketching out (maybe because you're really pumped) and then falling can be totally scary (especially if you're scared because you know the fall is long, or whatever), I think the most dangerous falls are the ones you don't expect at all. You're cruising along, and then out of nowhere you slip. Maybe your foot jam peels out from nowhere, or that jug you're hauling up on suddenly breaks off. You have no time to prepare, no time to get your legs away from the rope or jump away from the wall, no time to avoid the ledge a ways below or grab for a draw. In my first year of leading I was on Jabberwocky, 5.10a at Squamish. I had trouble with the cruxy start, but then got up a bit, placed a nut, got up further, placed another nut, and was past the crux and started to feel good about it. As I was standing up on a toe jam, it just slipped out. I was right above my last nut, so I wasn't too worried, but didn't have time to adjust. Then, all at the same time, I felt something click, a quick burn on the back of my leg, and was suddenly hurtling towards the ground headfirst. The rope stretched out, my belayer screamed "holy shit!" and my (unhelmeted) head bobbed within 4 feet of the rocky ledge. What happened was that my top nut pulled out, and as that happened and I fell downwards, my calf was suddenly in front of the rope below me. I got flipped upside down and got within 4 feet of likely death. My bottom (and only remaining) nut held. I learnt (also from other experiences) that if you know you're going to fall, it might be scary as hell, but it's a lot better than falling without knowing it's coming. Put in more gear, put in good gear, because you could slip out of nowhere, and it might not be at the crux. Another time the crack I was on had a wasp's nest in it, and right at the crux I got stung 4 times. I cursed up and down a blue streak, but managed not to fall off....Now I always wonder "what if I got stung by bees all of a sudden here?" I also got a helmet which I climb with religiously.

Man that was intense...all the bleeps and blips you can desire. I feel vaguely molested, and unworthy. I guess no one else was on after all?

Dog, As far as I can tell, this is a bulletin board for climbers in the Cascades (give or take a few). There's plenty of climbing talk, and the usual humor, BS, and smack going around. Why get all serious about something that clearly isn't? Nobody's forced into anything here - if you don't like it, get lost.

quote: it happens i like my job, i climb whenever i want. i am not the one stuck with some dead end job, with nothing else to do, but to surf the net. sounds pretty miserable to me. you see you pathetic losers i made some life choice that allowed me to climb pretty much full time for years. and all the rest of you wankers just dream about it, and try to thrash anyone who actually put their ass on line and made it.Um, I'm happy too, and my job's pretty swell. I get to climb plenty. I'm delighted you've "made it". What seems to be the problem then, Hugh?? It seems unclear why you climb. I've always liked Fred Nicole's philosophy "The best climber in the world is the one having the most fun." Have fun!

Well, I though the title had an academic "leisure studies" ring to it.... Nice article! Can't we all just get along?

Yeah, but I think Ford was wrong on that one. I believe he said that the economy would not survive if workers couldn't afford the products that they were making. I don't know why he said this - would the workers revolt? That's exactly what is happening in many parts of the world - workers are making shoes, clothes, toys, computer chips, etc. that they cannot afford themselves.

Try forest products....(that is, wood & paper, most of which is imported from Canucks and others). Or, we could just use less.... ...yeah, like that'll happen! I don't see a lot of bananas (most popular fruit in the US) grown here, either, but presumably they would be easier to do without. The US economy would quickly collapse without the global network. If overseas investment in the US alone ended suddenly, it would send businesses spiralling to destruction here. It would be the end of society as we know it! Yay!

Bah, troll for the typical tired arguments between flag-waving patriots and lefty US-apologists. This should be in spray. Doesn't send chills down my spine.

Man, I can't wait to hear how this climbing date goes! Just the guy you want belaying you.... "oh shit - take!" "you fuckin pussy! Kurt Smith could do that move in his sleep. 10 feet of penalty slack..." "fuck off assmunch!" "suck mine you Kurt Smith buttbuddy!" (needed an excuse to get past Wanker status)

When I'm worried, I use the Pristine 2-step drops thing (sold in Canada, haven't seen it in the US). It makes a chlorine dioxide solution, as used for decades in a number of European communities. Totally safe (way more than iodine), and tasteless if you do it right (otherwise tastes a bit like pool water). Simpler and more effective than filters (does viruses too), but does take 15 minutes to work.

Hmm. I've wondered about this too. The doctor may be on to something here quote: Actually, come to think of it, the Doctor hasn't seen many black people out boating or backpacking, either. I recall a fellow from the forest service (Mt Baker/Snoq.) talking to one of my classes, also wondering aloud how, year after year, so few non-whites were ever recreating in the woods. Perhaps people, other than the innovators, generally need a cultural role model. Any sociologists care to comment? Tiger Woods brought golf to the interest and attention of new groups of people. I think Mike Freeman was a black climbing 'celebrity' of sorts in the early '90's (I could be way off here), but I doubt the exposure was anything most folks would notice. I've certainly seen people of all races at the gym, but less so outside.

Lots of beautiful climbing in western cape province. Tafelberg (Drakensberg) is a blast - beautifully solid alpine trad quartzite. The water drip is hard to find (inside the cave, maybe? we never found it...). Beware of sandbags (local grade conversions always end up on the stiff side). This goes for Table mtn also. The sporty areas (Rocklands) might be different, though. At least on the Table and Tafelberg, be ready for very trad gear belays all the way up, and pretty much no fixed pro anywhere. Also beware of typos and bogus beta in the guidebook! I ended up on my first ever unplanned bivi because of this (book said go left, but really should have gone right...). Get (rent/buy) a car, because public transport is either expensive or sketchy (hitching is even sketchier). Only you will know where the fine line between "adventuresome" and "dangerous" lies for you. ...Just some thoughts from the top of my head. I was there in '99, so caveat emptor ... Great place, though, (SA) with enormous climbing potential.

Ok. I concede. For some reason I thought it was 'retronamed' Ha Ling because people thought Chinaman's was offensive. Whatever.

Bah, if Chinaman's was the original name, it should stand. Changing the name in the hope of undoing a lot of historical racism is BS. Keep the original name as a reminder of all the Chinese blood that was spilled building the trans-can railroad.

quote: Money is a representation of each of our efforts to create something with our lives. Ouch. As if! You can never walk in another person's shoes, know what it's like to have lived through their lives. The business world, which controls a good deal of money in this world, is based on croneyism - who you know. That's why playing golf is a business skill, and why good contacts will score deals more often than merit (ever gotten a friend a job? ever gotten a job from a friend?). Money also tends to stick in families. You can't actually be saying the Rockefellers, the Kennedeys, the Bushes all grew up with the same potential to make money as the gal who's deadbeat alcoholic dad beat and raped her? How hard you work may be one indicator of your potential wealth, but is far from the full story. Much more important, I'd say, are demographics, like parents' income, urban vs. rural lifestyle, single vs. dual parents, and I hesitate to mention them, but yes the much-hated PC stats like ethnicity, sex, disability, etc.

Yeah, if you're actually going getting into the environmental impact of sport climbs vs trad climbs, I think trad wins for greater impact. First, though, you'd have to agree on some sort of quantitative measure (like biomass, number of species, whether or not to include subjective things like visual aesthetics, etc.). I'm pretty damned sure more life gets squashed/scrubbed out of cracks than off little edges. I have yet to see tree stumps in the middle of face climbs... The thoroughly offensive visual blight of bolts seems to matter only to humans, and mostly climbers at that. I think chalk marks get more notice than bolts from non-climbers.

I like the various ways of going up the canal side slab no-hands. Always a good warm-up (sort of) or cool down. Downclimbing it no-hands is good too, and a bit scary near the top.

Well, shit, yeah they fucked up, obviously more than once. But you have to give them a break. They have the most contradictory mandate(s) of any US government agency. By law, they are responsible for sustained yield of timber from public lands (never repealed) from 1897's Organic Act; maximum production of recreational values, wildlife habitat and numbers, water quality, and timber yield from the Multiple Use Sustained Yield act of 1961 (also never repealed; how the hell do you maximize 4 non-translatable variables?); a legal mandate to take into account public opinion in forest planning from the 1974 Forest Management Act (still holds); and further responsibilities in the PNW that generally overshadow all previous obligations from the 1994 NW Forest Plan. Essentially, they can't fart without getting sued for violating some law. All this takes place in an environment where public trust in the agency is pretty much gone (understandably, perhaps), and the reality that fighting forest fires for all those years has led to the current fuels crisis in dry forest types. Agency morale is one of the lowest in the government agencies. Since the timber sale program has gotten dramatically smaller, their main source of revenue is gone (potentially replaced by various equally unpopular fee demo projects). And while it's clear that fighting forest fires is still useless or counterproductive in many areas, the FS can actually still get sued by landowners for not putting out fires that start or cross national forest land (and subsequently go on to burn private property). Plus, in a lot of dry forests, just letting fires burn in their current fuel-heavy state is not an option that will lead to what most people consider a healthy forest (because they will burn up completely, whereas historically they only had low-severity underburns; see my post in Bushwacked, p.3 for more details (near the bottom)). So in sum, they can get sued for not cutting trees, for cutting trees, for not maximizing recreation, wildlife, or water, for fighting fires and for not fighting fires. So the USFS is pretty messed up right now, but I don't think they could do otherwise. They need a new mission and vision (and I don't reckon they're going to get it from Mr. Bosworth). But I wouldn't bash the FS employees too much, because they can't do right now no matter what (I believe the term is 'analysis paralysis'). ...not that misplacing 200+ million dollars is particularly forgivable. I doubt this quote: Eric Lynch, a policy analyst for the taxpayer group, said "the misplaced millions could have been spent to reduce fire risk long before this year's fires ravaged the West." would have made much difference, though (maybe a wee little bit). Most analysts estimate that it will take over 40 years to get the national forests back to a relatively safe/healthy state, fuel-wise, and it currently takes years to approve most fuel-reduction projects.

Wings of desire at Skaha was awww-sommme. That was probably the most pumped I've ever been. Stood at the no-hands rest for a good 10 minutes to recover before the little roof...

Geek the Greek may be a geek, and may be a greek, but his opinions do not necessarily reflect those of geeks or greeks.... I'll stick to the forestry issues, and this thread has drifted way off, so I'll just watch and drink... That "remove forests" gag actually wouldn't solve the fire problem at all, though. Prairies burn even more often than forests!

quote: Most clear-cutting and strip-mining occur on government property because the offenders have no stake in the future value of the land. At least for clearcutting, this is patently untrue. Most timber in the US (like, 80%) currently comes from private land, the vast majority of which is clearcut. At its logging peak in the late '80's, public land only supplied 40% of the US-grown timber. Industrial logging is a business of clearcuts on private land. Weyerhaeuser tree farms all over the PNW are a prime example, but the most glaring examples are in the southeast. Douglas-fir plantations grow just fine (brilliantly, actually) in clear-cuts. It's the other forest values (wildlife, water quality, etc.) that may be compromised by clearcutting, not the crop trees. The jury's still out on whether soil productivity decreases after several rotations (yes in some places, no in others), but this matters less with intensive fertilization.