Bug

Fairweather, you made some great points but then digressed into angry attacks. Your links are good. I read them. There is more to it than just those links alone. Calling those of us who question the media, "Jew haters" when you have been questioning the liberal media all along just does not make sense. Yes the media has been liberal. Recently with the purchases made by Murdock, Fox news popped up, "all bullshit all the time" and the other news conglomerates he bought into have veered decidedly right. Still a little left of center but nowhere near as left as Fox is right IMO. And yes Rupert Murdock is a hard core Israel supporter and so was the liberal media. This has never been a secret in political campaigns at levels all the way down to our local elections. Your points made in the past about the liberal media have not been without merit. Where you repeatedly lose me is your personal attacks based on very black and white declarations. The world is just not that simple. And yes, you have been attacked unjustly at times too. Discussions like this have the potential of bringing us all closer to agreement. But more often it just helps us round out our knowledge. That is a personal choice.

Yeah. Punch em agin. That'll make em be nice. Sobo, thanks for the reply. It was spirited and well stated. I'm sorry if I upset you. I just wanted you to weigh in. That's a compliment by the way. Consider for a moment that our news has been owned and operated by liberals behind the curtains. As a liberal I prefer it to right wingers behind the curtains but I digress. The media has been playing to Israel as long as I have been alive. Probably you too. Even the BBC is still trying to asuage its guilt. Funny how we don't hear much from the arab side. It would seem easy to assume they just don't want to talk to us. But the arabs I have talked to, many were well educated, intelligent people, had a lot to say about the tactics and strategies of Israel and its influence over our media. For instance, how long would any politician last if he/she were to say anything like I have said here? It just isn't popular. Just on face value, ANY affront to the "rightousness" of Israel is met with "Jew hater", "anti-semite" (even though arabs are technically semetic also), and so forth. We have been getting the GW version all our lives. The press in Vietnam was a fluke and it blew up Johnson's face. Nixon's too. It likely will not happen again for quite awhile. Meanwhile "Israel = good, arabs = bad". Just a footnote here. Hammas sucks big time. But they wouldn't have the influence they do without a reason for people to WANT to follow them. Remove that reason and we will get back to progress. With things all spun out of control again, it will not happen soon. But I would like to see it stated as a goal and have it stated that we would also expect Israel to ease up a bit as Hammas looses power.

I have beer. I have Merlot. I have scotch. So the profanity is a reflection of my inner turmoil. Oh hell. I'll just drink all three.

Com'on Sobo. Don't be spineless. You basically just agreed with me. Put your "solution" out there. Or at least a first couple of steps.

Haha! No, you're right....so I'm gonna stand back and watch in awe and deep respect as I'm sure that the CC.com brain trust will have this entire issue sorted out and solved within 20 posts. I did that in two posts. I'm just waiting for the rest of you to catch up. So when did you stop thinking and posting?

Thanks Bug you are one for the few reasonable guys posting here. Look for the Syria sectiona nd the table showing Syrian Jewish population. (1948 to present) Those statistics are surprising. I was in Damascus in 83 and there was a Jewish quarter. They had their own shops in the market in the ancient city. I talked to them about what it was like and they seemed happy to be there. In one case, the man had taken over ownership of the shop from his father after growing up there. It would be interesting to go back and see what has happened.

Well I knew YOU wouldn't give up your beer. But I thought you might consider the possibility that looking at yourself very carefully might lead to some increased happiness. The basic theory is, a happy person is a peaceful and caring person. So f___ you if you don't get it.

Thanks Bill. That was enlightening. NOT!

I appreciate your response for its straightforwardness. If my history is off, please do correct me. Here is Wkipedia's version;"After World War I, the League of Nations approved the British Mandate of Palestine with the intent of creating a "national home for the Jewish people."[8] In 1947, the United Nations approved the partition of Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab.[9] On May 14, 1948 the state of Israel declared independence and this was followed by a war with the surrounding Arab states, which refused to accept the plan. The Israelis were subsequently victorious in a series of wars confirming their independence and expanding the borders of the Jewish state beyond those in the UN Partition Plan. Since then, Israel has been in conflict with many of the neighboring Arab countries, resulting in several major wars and decades of violence that continue to this day.[10] Since its foundation, Israel's boundaries and even the State's very right to exist have been subject to dispute, especially among its Arab neighbors. Israel has signed peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan, and efforts are being made to reach a permanent accord with the Palestinians.[11]" If the lummi came and took your land away from you and the UN "gave them the right", I don't think you would be playing the free country bit anymore. As I remember Yasser Arafat turned it down because of the restrictions and oversight the Israelie would have had over a "free" Palestine. There are Jews and Christians living in Damascus. They play fair and are treated fairly. BTW, Israel is a reality now. It would not go away regardless of what anybody wants and I do not advocate that. That does not make what the UN did any better. It was basically a guilt reducer for turning a blind eye to the Hollocost. And oh yes, we and the rest of the world knew about its scope and intent. And we kept our immigration quotas at a fixed level. The Jews of Germany were trapped. Now we need to be equally "benevolent" to the Palestinians. Like I said, a long term place to call home and a decent living will go a long way to acheiving peace.

I am not a Jew hater if that is what you mean. The jews to went into Palestine after centuries, forcefully conquered a people and then expected them to disperse without any compensation or even a place to live. I just do not see how you can say that is reasonable. Why shouldn't the native Americans have the right to reproduce like bunnies and take back the continent? The Jews are not willing to allow for a Palestinian homeland. That just is not a reasonable expectation. If they did that, the violence would continue for a generation or two and then die out. The middle east gets along better than most of us on this board. It is just a few fundo whack jobs who find easy fodder for hatred in the slums that the Palestinians live in. Let them build a decent home and a decent economy and see what happens. Regardless, it will not happen overnight and Israel has a habit of pummeling huge neighborhoods for the crimes of a few. The popularity of Hammas grew when Israel built the wall that dissected the Palestinian neighborhoods. It cut people off from their fields and pastures. They bulldozed homes and killed women and children in the process. Where was your concern for humanity then? The Jews have made their bed too. The major difference is that we have backed them so they have the power to get away with it.

So I guess you aren't changing your avatar to Tvishatarkia?

Ah. Yes. Red meat and hail Mary.

Yes. How unreasonable of them to expect some sort of compensation for the land taken away from them. Why if someone came to America and took my home away from me, why, I'd buy him a latte'. It's that Aarab blood. They just don't understand.

Dang! I thought sure you guys would convert to Ishaness if I showed you the video. Boy. You are really hard cases.

A few years ago we went up the cat track and across the rock field. One of the guys in my party wanted to cut up the gulley at the end of the rocks. He ended up buried up to his chest. Avalanche conditions were "considerable" that day.

My condolences to the family, her partner, and friends.

You can watch a short introductory video about Inner Engineering, by Sadhguru, the founder of Isha foundation which offers the program, here: Inner Engineering Talk by Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev

or keep lit an ass candle in the wind. Since you brought it up, what is the etymological origin of "ass candle"? Or is it "Ass-candle"?

Its like trying to retreive a fart into the wind.

Facebook material.

I went up there with two newbies on the 26th. It was pretty reasonable as far as avy danger went. I climbed the slab in the middle and set up a top rope over the steeper stuff between the slabs and the main falls. I looked at the stuff to the left but was too afraid to get any closer to the highway. The plow went by twice and dropped crud from 180 ft above. I keep getting errors trying to load the photo here. So the link is below. Franklin Falls pic

Really good advice right now especially.

Soooo. What did you blow up? I'm looking at a flock of geese and a dog that never stops barking. Maybe I'll get some sleep tonight.

Getting a higher post count=bragging rights... Hahahah... The sad part is that you are actually right. Do you all know how incredibly LAME this is? Sometimes I am amazed that you are climbers. Such a peaceful, gratifying activity that you turn into a way to brag about how cool you are. Some day you'll (hopefully) look back and realize what it is really about. Go post some more TR’s! It's nice hanging with ya Mike.

Enter China.