IceIceBaby

What will be the best single line +(6mm) rap line combo Im looking for the lightest single rope out there I heard that there is a 9.1 single line out there but Im not sure

Trango make the lightweight II I have them and they working very well even with gloves on they are 36 g $5.95 a piece 24kn and a little bigger (27mm gate opening) then the Nutrino with the same rope radios as the Nutrino (9mm) [ 03-31-2002: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ]

quote: Originally posted by Figger Eight: I can imagine what the hard men from the fifties and sixties who were pioneering routes in wool gloves and nylon parkas reading this whiny boo-hoo crap. It probably took Vanilla Iceicewoosy longer to write the original post than to call customer service and get a new pair. By all means,Go ahead and climb with the equipment that u described with wool and what not….However when I pay for my gear with hard owned MY MONEY I will expect to buy quality I don't go the gear shop thinking to myself how can I spend my hard owned $$ on the shitest gear available (that is your mind set Figger Eight)By the way Figger Eight spineless little shit if only you had to put with a week in the Israeli army then we will see who is the woos BTWIs BD is one of the sponsors on this site b/c that is the only way I can explain your position [ 03-26-2002: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ]

quote: Originally posted by erik: IS THAT WHAT HAPPEND??? DOUBT IT!!!! COME MAN USE SOME COMMON SENSE, IF YOU DONT HAVE SPARE GLOVES, THEN THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM AND IF YOU WERE USING THE DRY TOOL GLOVES IN -40 TEMPS, I AM SURE OYU WOULD HAVE A LOT OF OTHER PROBLEMS THEN YOUR GLOVES, LIKE GETTING OUT OF BED......SHEEIT...... LIKE I SAID BEFORE ~YAWN~ Eric,That was hypothetical situation But the question remainsBD makes the claims that the gear will work under these kinds of conditions I have been proven wrong under much milder conditions Where is the quality that has been advertised and if there were stricter controls, this would not happen

But why a product should it fail at the first place.If I am in the middle of a climb and my new gloves seams busted when the outside temperature is -40. The glove filled with snow that turn to water and got iced up and I don’t have a spare gloves because the spare gloves they are wet and iced. This cause me to lose fingers due to frostbite I don’t think that the customer service will give me a new hand with all fingers the best it can do is to replace the gloveThe reason I got the glove at the first place is for the reputation of the manufacture or at least what that they clime to deliver I want to buy gear where I don’t even have to know the customer service number B/c the gear works

quote: Originally posted by trask: Personally, I always get good customer service, from various different companys. My method: (Rule 1) Don't call them up and say, "Heh, asshole, your goddamn gloves are a piece of shit. I've worn them twice and they're coming apart. Fix the fuckers or talk to my attorney." ...this is guaranteed to get you totally shithouse service and a nasty attitude from the customer service rep. (Rule 2) Be very nice and cooperative with the customer service rep. Tell them about all of their product you own, and how happy you are with it. Tell them the item in question is failing for some reason and would they please help you out. Basically kiss ass and pump em' up. They will literally bend over backwards for you at that point. ...works for me!

quote: Originally posted by willstrickland: I figure you've gotta at least give customer service a couple of tries before you bash the whole company. I'm sure all those major manufacturers could make bomber stuff that would last 100 years, but it would all weigh a ton, cost a fortune, and have the dexterity of boxing gloves. That said, prices could be lower. Say what you will, I'm happy with my BD gear (cams, nuts, and ice tools). You wanna talk about a rep for bad customer service, let's talk OR (which is funny because the one time I sent something in they did well by me).WillstricklandCongratulations you are the first to actually understand what it is all about. To anyone else Just read in my post,Life expectations from gloves should be longer then two daysIt is not every product from BD, It is softgoods in particular (where the markup is the highest and there are no regulations)If you creating something new do not test it on your clients just to make production deadline If you can't improve on a product then don’t do it Customer service will not save you if a particular product is poor [ 03-26-2002: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ]

quote: Originally posted by pindude: Okay, let's cut through the bullshit on this thread. If you're going to diss a manufacturer or store, you better be able to back it up with sound reasoning or facts (Icebaby, NOT). If you are going to say you have heard "horror stories" without giving evidence, you better be giving honest examples, rather than let it hang. pindude Is my personal experience is not enough….How the hell you can judge things if not to your experience, my case is not individual and there is some others that did not step forward b/c they just don’t want to make waves, which I could care less

To all of you' who bashing what I wrote Its is really amusing to see that you all following blindly the piper as I said in my post Build your shit right a the first place and you don’t have to have a great customers service Any experience is individual and anyone is entitle to their own opinion it is your choice to be part of the herd like u all or stand up and speak your mind so some improvement will take a place I stand behind every word I said/wrote and you have the option to agree or disagree with me so till you have a better thing to say you can kiss my

Black diamond, a company with reputation for making durable, simple, functional climbing gear, that continued the unfortunate original founder Yvon Chouinard of Chouinard Co' (we all know the story). Yvon Chouinard started the company with liturly blood, sweat, tears and LOVE and got caught up with legal loophole bullshit that forced him to sale, to a small ski company that promised to keep the legacy going.Black Diamond today:A big corporate that claim to be employers owned just to make nice with the public and having the best customer service in the market (I will touch this point later).I have bought lately the "Dry-Tools" gloves and I have paid full retail price $60 + Tax. I have used them twice, the gloves just busted at the seams, and all stitch line has frayed thread on them. To me it seems very strange since I did not expected to happen so quickly. I have looked for the label to see if I did something wrong, only to find that a small white label that it was tacked away in the middle of the glove. The label read in subscript letters MADE IN CHINA Just by reading this line I have gotten my answer Instantly. BD couldn't be farthest away from the founder's ideology BD will sale gear with compromised quality and poor control and labor. Anything to make a buck. Even if the have no clue of how to make or create it. This show through their resent brainwashing campaigns and the legacy of making the worst gloves in the industry. I see a huge and alarming quality drop in gear made by BD and I wonder where and when it will stop My believe is: If I make a product, it should be the best I can or not making it at allMy name is the most important asset that I can sale, that not even the best costumes service in the world could repair. What I mean by that is; If I make the product it always will be after extensive period of testing and modification base on that. Made from the best materials from the top craftsman's hands and under the most discriminating quality controllers personal.Otherwise, it is not worth my effort. Becous in the long run I will have to invest in the top of the line customer department to explain my actions and to cover my ass or deal with letters like this. I should have learned from my previous experience with BD gloves (Verglas) and just not get any softgoods made by BD but I was tricked by the marketing campaign and I promise not to be a third time fool To sum it up:The only thing that the people at BD care for is, to squeeze the consumer to what they have and letting the costume service deal with those who dear to speak. The brainwashing is done in such a massive way while they trying to hide the truth under the carpet. On the gloves, you see the BD name and the Schoeller fabric highlighted and embossed in the fabric in 18pt - 20pt fonts. But when you look to how well it is been put together then, u have to dig in the glove whist part and fish for a nail size label with subscript font that you liturly need a magnifying glass to read the content. Nevertheless, they still are charging us as if it is first quality and legitimately made goods.Words of advice do not buy anything that is Black diamond made until they will show an improvement of their gear Please read this line b/c It sum it all: All I am saying, is this unrealistic to ask for the quality to be consistent or every time we go to the shop I should expect a different quality? Is buying from BD also have to be a Russian roulette [ 03-26-2002: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ]

I like the very subtle language

I just got the Blackice Rpidfix and the antibot from thinkmountain.com for $120 took 2 days to arrive. I will post my opinion once I have done good mileage in them Thanx for the input

I will get my head chew up for posting this one But I think that u should present the question along these lines A person that weight 165lb with a backpack that weight 30lb ascending 5242 vertical feet's on a course of 18 miles given that on a flat surface average person with 45lb backpack will do 4 m/h and every 1000 feet will take additional 1 hour how long will it take him to approach Chimney Rock [ 03-21-2002: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ]

Its quit understandable that Brian from splitter gear will act the way he did after the warm welcome we gave him… All that aside I think that manufactures that need to know the market pulse and should invest more of their time in forms like cascade climbers.com and less on giving some Jo gear to test and publish a bias review.In here is where the market is and in here is where opinion matter obviously it will be a majority decision on what works and what not and we can launch or destroy reputation of any manufacture or retailer. I think that slowly they started to realize it and pay more attention to the "word on the street" and the best thing of all it is free for them I just don’t see why they don't take full advantage on this post [ 03-21-2002: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ]

I need new crampons; I want them in new-matic/Rapid fix binding I am looking at Charlet Moser Black Ice Charlet Moser S12 Grivel 2F Grivel G12 I was wondering any recommendations pro con on the above also should I look at other binding system.I do have the Sabretooth I just do not like the affect that it limited to front and back bail bootsI also do not want to fumble with Scottish strap system either [ 03-21-2002: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ]

quote: Originally posted by allison: The only reason I broght up the whole prison labor thing in the first place is that it's nice to know these things when making informed choices as consumers. All I am doing by not buying OP products is exercising my rights as a consumer. I choose not to buy goods made by prisoners. I am not going to try and convert people to my way of thinking on this. Allison,Thank you for clearing that it is your opinion only and god bless u for that.Now that we clear that there is no violation of civil/amnesty rights/laws in employing inmates, we can consternate on quality and product value of OP with the prisoners labor fact been benign AHHH……What was the question?? [ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ]

quote: Originally posted by erik: and neri....the prison is minimum security....so i doubt these people/prisners are a real threat most society. [ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: erik ] So as the IRS will put it: To teach, rehabilitate and make sure that they wont be repeated offenders that might harm u physically or monetarily

Michael Lane,Thank you for your post and maybe this will help to keep things clear on this post.Now maybe the “philanthropists” will understand what you’re company representing I like and do buy your gear keep up the good work [ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ]

3 Weeks and not a peep from cham3s I wonder if they took my money and run. couple of email and not one answered which make me very worried if I been conned out of my money

quote: Originally posted by erik: the question that arises for me, is what benefit do the people/tax payer of washington state get???? are we not paying to house these people??? and they are being used/working for a private industry..........i imagine some or most of their profits (prisinors) goes to pay restitution to their victems??? and i dont like op stuff........just my opinion Giving then vacation from society and preventing them from doing more harm to you I guess your freedom and right to exist cost some money creamed from your salary

quote: Originally posted by slothrop: Why would you want to hold your axe with the pick forward for self-belay, anyway? If things are spooky enough that you're having to self-belay, isn't that all the more reason to be ready to whip out the self-arrest quickly? I would like to hear you saying this at the end of the day after 10,000 thrusts and plunges to neve or any other form of stiff hard snow and ice [ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ]

quote: Originally posted by JoeTool: I'm not going to reply for allison but here is some info:http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~kastor/private/privatize.html http://www.igc.org/lpa/lpv24/lp3.htm JoeTool,I just dont understand why u use this as supportive document I didn’t see any reputable, creditable and objective institution behind itJust look who is the publisher of the Article . It seems that it is an article written by very angry person that might as well was or is an inmate himself [ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ]

quote: Originally posted by allison: They used to be made with prison labor, not sure if they are anymore, but I don't like that and consequently have not bought any. They also had a recall a few years back for defective 'biners.... quote: Originally posted by allison: Uh, it has less to do with "prisoners making stuff" and more to do with "not being made by people working under acceptable labor standards." Allison,[*]Look at my reply to Dru regarding inmate rights[*]On another note you might going to be interested in this BDNo one is immune to production defects and the more strict the standard the more u will see this kind of action from any given manufacture in any industry even allot more sophisticated then climbing gear manufactures Remember the DC-10 airplanes… [ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ]

quote: Originally posted by Dru: Just for Neri Prison labor is all about the lack of choice. The prisoners dont get to choose to be hired by Omega. They get, well, not exactly forced, but... Hey, where does the lineup for organ transplants from Chinese prisoners start anyways? All this booze is wrecking my kidneys, I could use a new pair... Dru and Allison OK I will bite...[*]I just don’t see the connection between the final product comparing to any given similar product, to the way its been labored. [*]The person who post here originally ask for a product performance comparing and not labor ethical facts.[*]My opinion is:If labor will decrease in-jail violence, supply a time consuming occupation (remember the phrase "doing time") and will increase self worth in environment that been created for a sole purpose of suppressing the individual and his rights, all power to them.Now let's see… How a prisoner become one? A) by doing society a grand favor B) by committing a crime against society In order to punish a violators we should A) let them keep their freedom and treat them as an average citizen with all their rights B) take away their right and freedom and start the rehabilitation process with the prisoner paying his dues to society I think that this sum my opinion on the subject [ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: IceIceBaby ]

quote: Originally posted by freeclimb9: Hyperbole.Try critical thinking for a change, dude: Girth hitching reduces runner strength by up to 30%. Okay, so you started with 25kN for sewn Spectra, and now you're down to 17kN with a girth hitch. The strongest Stopper swage is 10kN. Guess what might be the first thing to fail when pulling on a girth-hitched Stopper? If this doesn't convince you, then consider that manufacturers have sewn slings to wires without in-use falures occurring (Smiley's for example). I've so much bullshit in this thread, I'm fucking amazed. It seems clear that many people climb with little idea of the limitations of their gear despite all the available information (even information that they quote). If you folks want to worry about stupid stuff, read the AAC's "Accidents in North American Mountaineering" so you'll realize what actually results in accidents. Gear failure is extremely rare, but can occur when the fall factor (Fall Factor = Length of Fall / Length of Rope [or runner]) is high. I'll continue to girth hitch gear when I'm running low on carabiners high on a pitch (or linking slings together to form a longer one), and I won't be worrying about a sling getting cut or melting. rant's over . . . I think u assume that the sling are brand new and dry and the day is beautiful and you in the best shape physically basically optimistic conditions, and u strongly believing in that...(I hope u will never be proven otherwise)I don't know about u, but my approach to placing pro is very pessimistic and expecting the worst I also rather carrying a little more binners then too little (but aiming for exact) I like to stack the odds to my favor