sexual_chocolate

i've worked around union gigs before and i can't say i've witnessed what you describe. there is the inevitable protective attitude that unions develop around their particular trade, which i think is understandable, but i never saw it taken to the degree that you speak of. but regardless, the trades are a tough line of work, and asking for a living wage for the workers is hardly unreasonable. if we really want to talk about unreasonable compensation for work performed, let's start with politicians, doctors, and lawyers (and ceo's in major corporations). the costs for all of us are way higher because of these than because of the 25 to 35 an hour union wage earner.

klenke, i think you're barking up the wrong tree when you speak of union wages being too high; all union power has done is give its members living wages. What a novel concept, huh? As far as our defense spending being a justified number, well that's just insane. As tax-payers, we are simply lining the pockets of defense contractors, and helping to distribute arms to all our questionable allies. I truly believe a progressive tax system, with no protection for corporations under the guise of "individual rights", is the way to go: No one pays taxes for the initial, say, 15 grand; 15% for the amount made between 15 to 40 grand; 20% from 40 to 60 grand, etc etc. right now we live in a corporatist oligarchy,and i for one am tired of it!

(but I AM looking forward to your reply regarding what I see as your defense of Saddam's repression of Kurdish autonomy.)

Robbob, i'm not playing a game of "gotcha" here, just pointing out the ramifications of the views you hold! I'll leave sophistry to to the greeks and politicians; I much prefer using logical deconstruction and common sense to guide my arguments. By the way, happy christmas shopping, and happy holidays too!

Interesting. But it was the Kurdish insistence on autonomy that led to the conflict, culminating in the use of gas by Saddam to quell the uprising. It would seem to me then that you would be a supporter of Saddam's intentions to quell an illegitimate land-claim, opposing only the methods used?

I refuse to eat farm-raised for the reasons mentioned above. Plus, on a kayak trip in BC, I witnessed first-hand the stench and pollution emanating from these horror-shows. Dru's and Jim's posts pretty much sum it up.

Isn't this like saying "I apologise for calling you a wife-beater, since I've never met you or your wife, and have no idea who you are, but I just have this gut feeling from the tone of your posts that your violent nature is causing you to beat your wife more often now." ?? Brilliant! You are more astute than I initially gave you credit for! Right here: I would suggest that you brought "race" into it earlier, with your exasperation at my suggestion that a particular ethnic group had suffered, and perhaps had legitimate land claim issues. But, one more time: Do Turtle Islanders have as legitimate a land claim as do the Kurds? I await your answer....

You have been hoodood into being PC. Travel to Puerto Montt and take a close look for yourself at how the salmon are farmed. Are you saying then that Puerto Montt is the exception to the rule?

Insurance is really only for larger claims; 600 bucks no longer cuts it. welcome to capitalism and market forces at work!

Oh, and THEN what happened? Well, the borrowers left me a gift! They left me a couple of Outkast cd's(!) (stereo boxxx, the love below), a couple of n.e.r.d. cd's, ll cool j (!), black eyed peas, trick daddy, and linkin park (hmmm). But crap, I just realized this is a commiseration thread, and here I am being all happy and shit. Sorry. Always look on the bright side? When life hands you lemons, throw them at sexual chocolate? Maybe they were just borrowed. that's the way i viewed my van loss. I mean, can anything really disappear in this universe?

but before you use home-owners insurance (if even applicable), it might not be worth the cost. I've heard of people being dropped for even INQUIRING about making a claim (happened to my real estate agent!).

Sucky sucky. I had my van "borrowed" five weeks ago. But guess what? It's back! Got the call last night from SPD and there it was! Even had my table saw still in the back, although all the little stuff was gone.

Good morning robbob. I suppose that I may have been a bit careless as I began to sling accusations of racism at you during our argument yesterday; for this I'll apologize. While I don't agree with the overall tone or philosophies espoused by your arguments, and perhaps even consider them to be racist, I haven't spent enough time in your presence to come to any conclusion beyond a quasi-specious suspicion based on the racist views you hold. I believe the gassing of the Kurds was an atrocity beyond the comprehension of most of our personal emotional frameworks; I think it is for this reason it has made such a powerful propaganda tool for the current (and previous) administration. The inherent problem with the current administration's use of this atrocity as a propaganda tool is the fact that individuals involved in this administration were directly in the know at the time of the slaughters and did nothing to stop them. As a matter of fact, the UN made an attempt to condemn Hussein's actions, yet the US stepped in to protect what was at that point (mid to late '80's) an important asset, and over-rode the UN efforts. But to directly address your point: If you go back and read my question, it was very pointed and direct: Why do you think the Kurds have more of a valid land-claim argument than the Original People here on North America (Turtle Island)? One doesn't need an "antiestablishment prism" to sniff out racism! Common sense will do. Why is it that you always quote some damn capitalist propaganda spewer (sewer) who supports your adopted views, reducing all matters social, cultural, and political to capitalist tenets of production value? You're as bad as the Communists! At what time-value do you draw the line? The Kurds were gassed in the mid- to late-eighties, so a new generation of non-Kurds has cropped up on contested soil. Hmmm....this gets complicated! It wouldn't be fair to dislocate these people who had nothing to do with the gassing....And since, as you claim, it was Saddam personally who was to blame for all this, it should be he who atones for these crimes. How? Monetarily? In the form of land re-appropriation? Whose land and whose money? We can't use Iraqi money since that would be a form of collective punishment (your argument against reparations?), and again we can't repatriate, since innocents would be affected. Hmmm.... And again, since you still haven't answered: How do the Kurds have a better land-claim issue than the Original People here? Tell me where I brought race into it. I believe this whole to-do started when you disagreed with my stance that the Original People here have as valid a land-claim as do the Kurds in Iraq. Oh, which reminds me: How do the Kurds have a better land-claim issue than the Original People here? You used the word "success". This word can be defined in many ways, although your penchant for its use is firmly entrenched in its capitalist connotations. Mine isn't. I would think that the "keys to achievement" are not necessarily universal, since the notion of "achievement" itself is very much a cultural/social construct. Do you really think I personally would want to be a prisoner of your "success constructs"? Highly doubtful, after seeing what they consist of. In the same vein, I would suggest it to be highly immoral for you to so consistently impose your rigid world-views as universally inescapable truths, when all they consist of really are unconsciously adopted puritan/capitalist value-systems, protected now in the most emotive manner. Oh, and one more thing: Why do you think the Kurds have more of a valid land-claim argument than the Original People here on North America (Turtle Island)?

PLEASE clean that hairy ass of yours, PRONTO!

please go remove that disgusting tissue-paper from your disgusting hairy-ass monkey body. Do not even talk to me until you have done this simple thing.

Jesus Christ, SC, it's 100 years later. We've made most tribes rich with the gambling industry. At some point they are going to have to make the cultural decision to look toward the future instead of the past, deal with some of their demons, and go forth into the melting pot! Don't play games here; address my point. I simply state that Native Americans have as valid a claim to territory within the US as the Kurds do within Iraq. You seem to disagree. Care to explain why?

you hairy-ass monkey. Never again expose me to these disgusting personal data.

You know what I'm really tired of? Wooden chairs with cloth liners. Carpet cleaners also. And what about those Mariners anyway?

Your form of racism is really one of the most insidious: "All ethnicities are really as equal and as worthy as me, as long as they conform to MY norms and MY values."

Ahh nice! so you have one example to back your claim that you're not stereo-typing! Hip hip hooray! And wow, you hang out with different ethnicities! But, I really don't see the above multi-culturalism as a counter-argument to what I see as your subconscious racist tendencies. Sorry.

goddam, must be an extra tendon or sumthin'. put that gun down and pass me another goddam beer, before i fuck my mom agin.

And furthermore robrob.... i believe your first objection was my claim that native americans had a right to land claims; you said it had been "a hundred years", so they should just get over it. Why do you think the Kurds' land claims are more relevant? Please answer.... Trask: from what I've heard, you are intimately aware of the answer to that question....

I disagree wholeheartedly. Saddam waged a long (and bloody) campaign in an attempt to assimilate the Kurds and strip them of their ethnic heritage. This attempt was entirely consistent with the US' methods in dealing with our own ethnic minorities. I'm curious as to why YOU think this is so....(I like the part of all of the asian immigrants becoming doctors! Stereotyping is SO hard to overcome!)

Nice! I expected something like this as a reaction! "Those darn Injuns....what are they whining about now? Can't they just accept that we wiped 'em out and took their land? It was a fair fight, and we just showed 'em white man's superiority. Still showing it, by god!" Hey, maybe the indians coulda gone over to Iraq and showed the Kurds and the Shias how to set up Casinos! Cuz we have now concluded that their clamor for an independent homeland was silly; they should have just gotten over it, and blended into Iraqi society! Thanks, RobBob, for the insightful clarification! (Now what shall we do about those pesky black people?)

hardly surprising, really. Saddam suppressed the cessationist ambitions of both the Kurds and the Shias in a most cruel way; do you really think you'd find much support for him within these groups? Of course not. I'm not sure what your point is in even bringing this up.... Remember when AIM (american indian movement) began to agitate for greater awareness and independence for native americans, back in the '70's? A pretty quick reaction from the feds, i'd say. How many Natives were killed in the ensuing slaughter? (And I believe one fbi agent was killed, and now leonard peltier still sits in prison as the fall guy.) My point with the above example is that if any ethnic group began a militant attempt at securing territory here in the US, they would experience a fate not unlike the Kurds and the Shias did in Iraq. And believe me, the Native Americans have as good a cause to agitate for independence as the Kurds have had in Iraq!