JayB

"I nominate me " I second the motion. The captain rocks the hizzouse...

As long as we're on the subject....Yankee Doodle Lake, CONovember 28, 20012 backcountry skiers caught, 1 buried and killed (drowning?)Provisional Report -- Report subject to change as more information is learned. Date & Time: November 28, at approximately 1300 hrs. LocationYankee Doodle Lake, East side of Rollins Pass, Front Range, approximately 3.5 miles west of the Eldora ski area. Elevation: 11,300 feet, at timberline Aspect: Southeast (120 degrees) Slope Angle: 34 to 36+ degrees Avalanche DataThe avalanche was classified as HSAS3O/G (hard slab, artificial-skier trigger, medium size, running on old snow/ground). The crown (fracture line) was 2 to 5 feet, and 400 feet wide. About half way down the slope the avalanche was funneled to a width of 223 feet. The avalanche released from a southeast-facing slope and fell 600 vertical feet and stopped by crashing through the 10-inch thick ice of Yankee Doodle Lake. The displaced water resulted in a surge 10-12 feet tall along the south shore. The snowpack at the crown was uniform and hard (pencil) except at the ground. The bottom 2 inches consisted of soft (4 finger hardness), loose, beginning faceted (sugar snow). In places along and immediately below the crown was old summer snow or neve. (We were not able to safely approach the neve. There is a possibility this "old" snow is not neve but is more recent snow (October) that developed a hard melt-freeze crust.) Contributory weather factorsWeather data is still being collected. An estimated 12 inches of new snow fell in the area between November 23 and 28. "Heavy blowing snow" was reported at Eldora Mountain Resort on the night of November 26/27. The morning of the 28th dawned sunny. Accident SummaryEarly Wednesday afternoon two local Boulder-county men were skiing the open slope above Yankee Doodle Lake when they triggered a sizable hard-slab avalanche. The avalanche struck the ice-covered lake and shattered the ice, dumping both men into the water. The pair were skilled and avalanche-savvy backcountry skiers who were well-equipped for a day in the mountains. One man died (drowned?). His friend escaped, but unable to find his missing partner, he hiked back to the Eldora ski area to get help. This was the men's third day in a row on this slope where two days earlier they had enjoyed terrific powder skiing. Before starting their descent the pair dug a snow pit. Apparently satisfied with what they had found, they agreed to ski short distances one-at-a-time, taking turns watching each other while the other would wait at a "safe" spot. The first man (survivor) skied a short distance to flatter-bench area and traversed toward some rocks to avoid a much steeper cliff area. He glanced back over his shoulder and spotted his friend who had just started down. He then realized the entire slope was moving. The avalanche left both men in Yankee Doodle Lake. The survivor ended up nearly in the middle of the lake approximately 190 feet from shore. Packed in shattered ice and water he struggled to the shore. Yells for his friend brought no response and he could not detect a signal from his friend's avalanche beacon. His waterlogged cell phone did not work, so he set out for help. He hiked down the Jenny Creek trail the 5 miles to Eldora Mountain Resort. RescueThe Eldora Ski Patrol responded first followed by members of the Rocky Mountain Rescue Group. Arriving as darkness fell the hasty search was organized. Searchers tried to detect a beacon signal but could not, so probe poles were used to search likely burial areas. More rescuers arrived including avalanche rescue dogs. The rescuers could not search the shattered ice and water until later that evening when trained dive-rescuers arrived with specialized rubber suits. After 2300 hours that evening a dive-rescue team member searching the refreezing surface detected a signal. The missing man was found 91 feet off shore in the frozen snow, ice and water. CommentsThese men were smart and savvy backcountry skiers who were doing things by the book yet still got into trouble. At the time of the accident (and in the days before the accident) we were rating the backcountry avalanche danger in all mountain areas at CONSIDERABLE. Triggered avalanche releases were probable, and natural avalanches were possible on NW to NE to SE facing-slopes near and above tree line. The avalanche the men triggered occurred on an ESE to SE facing-slope at tree line. Before rushing to judgment, remember both men were backcountry and avalanche smart. They had the right equipment and knowledge to be out in the terrain, snow, and weather conditions. Boulder County Sheriff George Epp said it well in the Daily Camera newspaper (11/30/2001, page 5A) when he was quoted "If you try to get a lesson out of this...the mountains can be dangerous no matter how prepared you are." This is the first Colorado avalanche death in Colorado in the 2001-2002 winter, and second in the United States. Incidents where avalanche victims are swept into water and drowned uncommon but not unheard of. In 1978 at Twin Lakes, California, a county snowplow and a pickup with two occupants were swept into the unfrozen Lower Twin Lake. The snowplow operator swam to shore. Twenty minutes later a motorist stopped by the earlier avalanche climbed on to the debris where he was caught by a second avalanche and swept into the lake. All three motorists drowned. In 1981, near Elko, Nevada, a snowmobiler was caught and swept into an ice-covered lake and drowned. Atkins 11/30/01

"In the Garden of the Gods you can carve your intitals in the rock with your finger after it rains. Even some guidebooks say not to climb there until days after rain because the rock is so fragile." True enough. Even if you were weren't concerned about preserving the rock, the concern that most of us have for conserving our asses would keep us off the rock for a couple of days after a good rain. The place is scary enough with shiznit cracking off even when it's bone dry in my opinion. It hadn't rained for a couple of weeks prior to our climb but the sweat pouring out of my unchalked palms on a wicked hot day may have caused some fairly significant erosion. That's one of the funny things about the place - one of the few crags around where the ratings get stiffer over time instead of the other way around, as once crisp crimpers mutate into dry-heave inducing half-pad slopers with enough traffic. That, and the fact that I have yet to get a camcorder and/or one of those waist-belt pouch deals, lead me to climb elsewhere if I can...

I want someone to start selling avy-charges or a carbon-fiber avy mortar over the net so as to avoid having to deploy the avy ball. "When you've dug your pits and set your beacons and your still not sure about the slope...it's time for the BC Access Porta-Mortar....:

Just an update on the BD letter. I got a response from someone there a day or two after I sent the e-mail acknowledging my letter, and they've promised to send a reply responding to the statement in my letter shortly. No word on whether or not they'll be okay with me posting their response to this site, but if they are I'll be sure to share it with everyone. I just hope that my letter will not jeopardize my efforts to secure a sponsorship from those fellows. I even had an original pitch for them, to the effect of "Many potential customers have expressed reservations about purchasing your high end gear, fearing that the combination of pricy high-end gear and low-end skills will make them look like a bunch of weak-ass yuppie posers who read into thin air too many times. However, I've overcome any such reservations and by way of example that it's okay to combine the high-end tools of a hardened alpinist with the skills of a pretty low-end weekend hack. Once they see me out there with a pair o' Cobras and some Bionics they'll know that it's okay and your sales volumes will skyrocket. So much so that you can sell the stuff here at Euro prices and still turn a profit..."

Beats me.

One of the of the primary objections I’ve heard to placing bolts from those opposed to the practice is that it permanently modifies the rock. Sure, other points have been made about respecting the style of the first ascencionists, not bringing the rock down to your own level and many others which I agree with. However, after reading several posts on the subject my mind turned to a group of sandstone formations about two miles south of my house – the Garden of the Gods. The primary occupants of the park are mini-van driving denizens of the plains (Kansas et al), sporting prosthetic camcorders, leather-pouch-belt thingies, and enough adipose tissue to keep a candlemaker in business for weeks, but there’s some quality climbs to be had there as well. When a friend came out for a visit, we headed up a moderate trad climb by the name of “New Era.” We climbed the whole thing without so much as laying a hand on the scarce fixed gear on the climb ( a couple of mank, rusty, fatigued baby angles placed in the hemp rope era and one ¼ inch bolt with a home-made super-jingus aluminum hanger) as you can just sew the thing up with gear. The pro’s a bit more sparse on the second pitch but it’s certainly there. We topped out and got some mad props from some the omni-present German tourists whose bus stopped so that they could marvel at the prowress we displayed on this stout 5.7 testpiece. Prior to reading the proliferation of anti-bolting posts on this site I would have rapped down with a clear conscience and a light heart, but now my experience has been forever compromised. For although I had not so much as layed a hand on the fixed gear present on this climb (which was presumably placed on lead by men climbing with wafflestompers and hemp ropes so it’s ethically sound hardware – phew!) I had PERMANENTLY MODIFIED THE ROCK (shudder) during my climb. I took a non-standard start on some gritty, chossed-out quasi crack to the left of the actual start and broke off at least two holds with my feet in the first 20 feet of the climb. But my sins were far from complete. Every time I touched the rock I displaced a few grains of sand with my fingertips, and who knows what horrors I inflicted upon it’s fragile tableu with my size 11 shoes with each foot placement. And oh the toll my skin oils will take upon the rock when they commingle with the delicate silicates that hold the whole thing together! What’s one to do? Even eschewing the rest of the rudiments of the modern technology that have hitherto prevented me from having truly met the rock “on its own level,” such as cams, nuts, tape, shoes, and clothing and climbing the thing as naked as a baboon will not save me, for even so much as a gentle, chalk-free crimp will forever alter the rock! Despite driving an internal combustion vehicle, using electric-power at home, using pro smelted from ore that was surely mined from the earth somewhere and a rope derived from refined petrochemicals etc, my heart recoils at the thought of modifying the rock in any fashion whatsoever. My dreams of ethical purity have been shattered, and now I question whether I can go on, for whatever I touch, even it it’s bullet granite, I will permanently modify. If that’s the bar which all ethically sound climbers must clear, I suspect I’ll have to abandon the sport.

Bronco - yup. Sporting the Oakley Razor Blade shades, a "No Fear" T-Shirt peeking out from beneath the flannel, and complemented by a righteous Billy Ray Cyruseque feather mullet to complete the ensemble. Maybe even some gaiters over the Lee Jean/white, rear entry, one-buckle ski boot interface zone for extra credit. Word.

I'm with hikerwa on this one. Whatever one may think of what's become of TNF, I'm glad that someone there took the time to let us know about what sounds like a cool slideshow - it's not their fault that their company got bought out by the same folks that brought us...err.. Lee Jeans. Hopefully the collective response on this site won't discourage them, or anyone else from doing so in the future. Either that or at least hope that they have a thick skin and a healhty sense of humore. Besides - have you seen the folks that hit the Slopes in their tight-assed Lee Jeans/Acid-Washed Levis Fleece-Lined Jacket/Blaze-Orange Camo Baclava combo? Spanaway Ski Club? That's hard core baby...How about a slide-show about them and their dogged determination to endur whatever the Cascades throw out them with only a thin layer o' denim to get them by. Make the rest of us look like a bunch a sissies

Nice - here but for the grace of god goes Vantage... www.bouldernews.com/news/local/15aclmb.html

Man....gotta proof read these things before posting or stop trying to post on the fly at work..

Lambone: For what it's worth now that the conversation's in spray.... Crowds: They're here already, they'll probably get worse. This sucks but if you've taken up the sport within the past 10 years you are part of the trend yourself and not in any place to resent newcomers. Ice Conditions online: just about every ice-climbing area in the state has been subject to online updates for the past few years already and every one seems to be getting by just fine. I sure appreciate it when folks take the time to post the info online, especially for climbs in RMNP with brutal approaches. It's a bit of a stretch but the fact that people have become used to information on the climbs being relatively ubiquitous may have contributed to the almost complete lack of hostility and "This is MY ice" that I've encountered out here. In fact, there were about 25-30 people at the Mt. Lincoln ice-fall this Saturday, and area with 5-6 distinct lines right now. Despite the crowds what struck me was not how big the crowds but how cool everyone was. After a couple of trips out there in similar conditions, it seemed clear that patience and consideration are a much better, and more realistic way to cope with crowds than hostility and hoarding beta.

Hey Charlie: Send me a PM with your mailing address and I'll send you a check to cover the cost of one of the rap stations.

Word to Alpine K! Skiing with a bushel of hay strapped to your back word certainly be more difficult than descending the same line without the extra load, and one could certainly come up with some stylistic justifications for doing so, e.g. "If you've never known the bliss of descending a steep couloir with a bushel of hay atop your shoulders..." but doing so would hardly be an argument for the intrinsic superiority of the technique/equipment versus the alternatives. Seriously though, if tele skiing is what you dig, more power to you. In fact, the bad-ass tele-rippers that I see descending the steep-bump laden chutes under the Pali-chair at A-Basin are probably the most talented skiers on the mountain, given the instrinstic difficulty of the tele-turn vis-a-vis the alpine turn, especially in the bumps. The reason I've stuck with an alpine set-up for as long as I have is that it sets the fewest constraints upon my performance on the hill (when descending). The same would go for an AT-set up in the backcountry. I can descend steeper lines faster than I could ever dream of doing with free heels. Seems like if we're talking about speed on descents alpine/AT wins that contest hands down. However, if you are into tele, that's probably not what skiing is about for you. After two successive ligament tears in the past two years, that might not be what I dig most about skiing for two much longer. Just thought I'd have some fun and chime in....

Hey - thanks for the link. Very well put by Loren. Hopefully my letter will reinforce the point. I think that wether the industry likes it or not, the genie is out of the bottle here and it's time for them to modify their business model accordingly.

Man am I jealous! A foot of pow in the northback and none of the dreaded lifts in action back there yet. I've been missing that place ever since I moved to CO in '98, and ever since then I've been telling the folks here that skiing in the Cascades kicks CO's ass if you care about terrain and don't mind skiing when the snow is falling. If you want crowds, oceans of weak terrain, fleets of groomers on the prowl and lot's of folks from Kansas cruising around on 155cm parabolics and rear-entry boots in neon accented one-piece Euro suits, then CO wins every time. The only exception near the front range is A-Basin, which is small but has sweet terrain and locals (especially the tele guys) that rip big time. Just in case any one out there is thinking that the grass is greener over here. Also - I skiied 30 days for $300 on a season pass good for Breck, A-Basin, Keystone, Vail, and Beaver Creek due to the local price wars - that part was pretty sweet. Long Live Crystal!

Hey EPB, Thanks - we'll see what happens. Hopefully they'll reply. Did I say EMC? I meant to write MEC, or Mountain (or Mountaineering or something like that) Equipment Co-op, a sort Candadian Paleo-REI that I was pysched to order from when I heard about the deals, only to find out that they could no longer ship the merchandise I was looking for to us honorary hosers here in the US for reasons I alluded to in the letter !

Hey Fellas: Here's the full text of the letter I just sent to Black Diamond regarding their pricing. Sorry if it's a bit on the long side. I'll send along their response if I get one. Also - Gregm - I quoted you in the letter, hope that's okay. I characterized you comments, which I think are totally legit, as a "nasty rumor" in the letter to the folks at BD in the hopes that doing so would look kindly upon my tone and provide me with a response, and also to goad them into defending themselves just a bit. "Dear Black Diamond Staff: One of the most highly touted benefits of the Web for consumers has been the introduction of rapid price comparisons between competing retailers both domestically and abroad. Accordingly, it didn't take long for those of us who compare prices online to notice a vast discrepancy between the prices we were being charged domestically versus the prices being charged for the same goods overseas. As a consumer you naturally vote with your dollar and take your business to the retailer offering the goods you want for the lowest price. Case in point: I recently purchased a pair of boots for $177 online that retail for $399.50(!) in the US. Not Scarpa boots, but the point remains valid. I was especially surprised to learn that I could buy BD gear overseas and get it for far less than I can get it here. There are several reasons why this could be the case. Shipping (for European goods imported to the US)? Nope, cost me $20 to ship a single item, far more on a per-unit basis than one would pay to ship the goods in bulk like a retailer would. The exchange rate? Nope - Currently one Euro gets you 89.61 cents. If it took two Euro to get a single dollar maybe one could make a case here. Duty? No again - US customs assessed a 4% duty, which came to about $8.00 dollars US. So who is getting the pound of flesh out of the consumer here? The producer - seems unlikely as the cost to manufacture a given product is the same regardless of who the producer elects to sell it too, although volume pricing and the like make give the buyer a bit more pricing power in certain cases. Retailers? Seems like it would be to their advantage to give the consumer the best price upon which they can turn a profit in a competitive marketplace. Who is left? Wholesalers - or is the reason some sort of collusive price fixing amongst all of the parties named above? That's the unfortunate conclusion that many loyal gearheads are coming to with regards to high-end outdoor gear in general and BD products in particular. The only reason I'm bringing this up, and maybe you have had several letters like this before, is that I dig your stuff and consider myself a loyal customer. Just in the last year alone I've shelled out many a hard-won dollar for two sets of Camalots, a set of Prophets, Swithchblade Crampons, two sets of Stoppers, several Express ice screws and who knows how many 'biners. Not only have I purchased scads of your stuff myself, I've recommended you gear to just about anyone who has asked my opinion on the matter. Beyond the quality of the gear itself, I've always heard from others that you stand behind your products for the long term and take care of your customers in the event that the equipment is damaged (by repairing it for a fair price) or found defective. Such practices are consistent with a company that realizes that its most important relationship is with its customers, not retailers, wholesalers, or anyone else who stands between the two. Yeah - staying in business means staying on good terms with the middlemen, but not to the detriment of your customers if you are thinking long term. So here's the question. What's the deal? Why do we have to pay so much more to buy your gear domestically? What's with putting the royal kibosh on MEC shipping gear to the US if they can offer your customers a better price? Some nasty rumors have been springing up on the climbing related newsgroups lately, such as: "BD is also muscling Tele-Pyrannes. BD asked T-P to not show Scarpa tele boots on their webpage. They still carry them and T-P will still sell them to you at the way cheap price, you just have to know to ask them. Interestingly enough they still show Scarpa AT boots on the web catalogue. BD has already muscled Coulior Mag to stop printing ads for T-P. " (There's quite a bit more out there but hopefully you get the idea.) I just thought I would write you guys and provide you with the opportunity to set the record straight on this matter. With your permission I'll post your response on the newsgroups I frequent, as there's been quite a bit of discussion about this matter going on lately. Please respond to the hotmail address I have included above. Thanks in advance for your consideration and reply- Jay BrazierColorado Springs, Colorado

I bought a pair of boots from them not too long ago and was assessed a 4% duty on the "Mountain Goods" I had purchased through them. It came to about $8.50 on an order of roughly $200 (including shipping) plus a five dollar service fee. I got the boots (Asolo AFS 8000's) for $177 US, and they retail for $399.50US domestically. Bring on customs baby! On a related note, I'm going to send an e-mail to the folks at BD to inquire about their policies concerning MEC, Barrabes et al, and domestic prices for gear in general. I'll post the response to this forum if I get one.

Side Note - Did the new owners of Crystal go ahead and add chairlift access to the Northback terrain? I heard that that was on the menu when I left the state in '98, but I've been hoping that Forest Service regs or something of that sort would stymie the move and the area would retain it's hike-in only character. Just wondering...hopefully they're not grooming the place...

Just got tagged with a customs bill for my first order - bummer. The good news is that I could pay the duty 10x over and still end up paying less than if I had bought domestically.

TG: True indeed - actually, if you count swearing as whining she handled the situation better than I did, as I was pretty much cursing up a storm the whole way down.

Well, no epics per se, but I left the headlamp at home for the first time in years and paid for it. After finishing up a day of ice-climbing at Mt. Lincoln the girlfriend and I stumbled and fell down a hefty talus field (covered with verglas and 2" of new snow for extra credit)for an hour or so. That was pretty lame, but finding out that the girlfriend can handle situations like that with a smile on her face was pretty sweet. Enduring an-hour long whine-session during that descent and on the drive home would have made for an epic outing indeed.

Got the Ropes (two 8.5mm X 60M Edelweiss Calanques) last week and took them out for a test drive and thought I'd post my thoughts on the goods. As far as handling is concerned, the ropes were quite supple, with very good hand. All new dry ropes shed water pretty well, in my experience, but these stayed dry and ice free better than any ropes I've used, most recently the PMI 8.1's. The conditions on Mt. Lincoln were warm and fairly wet for most of the day, with a good inch or so of slop on top of very soft ice on the steeper bits and puddles of water on the flat parts. Anyhow, the ropes stayed ice-free even after wallowing in this slush all day, which was especially impressive when it cooled off and carabiners were freezing shut and runners turned into hula-hoops. I'd definitely recommend 'em if anyone's in the market.

Worked 12 hours Friday and Saturday painting someone else's house and installing a brick walkway at their pad to pay for a recent rope purchase. Way lame. Will hopefully redeem myself with multiple days out next weekend. Kudos to max for the multiple ascents of classic routes in RMNP. Way to go - let me know what All Mixed Up is looking like these days if you get the chance.