JayB

Beta as in recent conditions? I in the vicinity two weeks ago. It looked like a decent sized slide ran the length of the lower chute a couple of days before our arrival. Most from 8,000-11,000' consisted of a thin crust atop bottomless isothermal slush in the colder hours, and just straight-up slush for the rest of the day. Neve' with extensive snowcover above that elevation, with the only open crevasse on the upper route being just beneath the crater rim. Even allowing for three weeks of warm temps, my guess was that the route is still in shape but wouldn't give it more than a couple of weeks...

Three main areas that I know of: The Sandia's - just outside of Albuquerque. A mini mountain range with tons of routes, most of which fall into the long, old-school trad variety, with longish approaches (or so I hear). Enchanted Rock - Moderate to hard sport. Enchanted Rock itself is a freestanding formation with lots of bolted routes. The Los Alamos Areas: White Rock crags- There are a few crags right on the outskirts of Los Alamos. Single pitch trad-cragging, no fixed anchors that I can recall, fairly stiff ratings. Most of the home near los Alamos were built on a mesa top, and some of the routes top out right behind people's back yards. I can't recall the name of the area - but there's an area a few miles outside of town in the National Forest/Jemez Mountains that looked like it had the best climbing of all. Welded tuff, mostly sport, in the midst of a tall pine forest. I think that name was Cochiti Mesa. There's also a place called Las Conchas nearby with about 40 routes that offer more of the same. There's also a place called El Rito I heard about - sounded like it was bolted conglomerate stuff. We were there in February and the access roads were closed, but it looked pretty cool. There are also several amazing hot springs in the area near here. All of the areas might have been affected by the fires out there a couple of years ago. Report back if you go....

I'll bring buns again...

Hey - now I get it. Sweet system. Fast, simple, bomber...

I'd second the recommendation for the Finger. Looked like it was in great shape a couple of weeks ago, and (argueably) exposes climbers to less severe objective hazards than the Kautz route.

What John said. I'm sure that the total tab for looking after cyclist vegetables is dwarfed by the cost that obesity induced diabetes alone imposes on the health care system. Moreover, the figures state that 88% of brain injuries in cyclists could have been prevented by the use of a helmet. I've been riding to work every day for a few months now, and have not seen a single bicycle commuter without a helmet - which suggests to me that most of the brain-impaired former cyclists out there probably not commuters, but folks who hop on the bike for a ride now and then and bite it sans helmet. I agree with you that riding to work exposes us to more uncontrolled risks than climbing does, but the notion that we are social parasites hellbent on bleeding the health-care system dry is off the mark, amigo.

Roped up without intermediate pro on moderate slopes and glaciers in arrestable conditions - not dumb. Roped up without intermediate pro on steep, exposed pitches, or glare ice - dumb.

I don't know anything about the area under discussion, so I'll refrain from making comments about these particular routes. What I will say is that I really don't think that a closely bolted route here and there at established sport areas is going to destroy the last vestiges of the old school ethic any more than someone putting up death routes at such areas is going to turn everyone into a hardman that won't touch anything without an R or an X rating. I do think that they should be relatively rare, and should not be the result of retrobolting an established line, or put up in an area with a contrary ethic, but as long as these criteria are met a soft route or two for first time leaders, kids, or whoever else might find them appealing at any given moment (mea culpa) shouldn't cause anyone too much grief. I have heard from people in the know that Tex leads scary stuff all of the time and has some credibility in this matter, but when I read these discussions I wonder how often many of the people that sing the praises of dangerous routes from behind the computer actually get out and lead them on a regular basis. I know that for me, claiming I want to lead something and actually getting out and doing it are two very different things....

Thinker is right. When climbing, the risks you encounter are in large part determined by the decisions you make. This is much less true when riding in the city.

Yipes. That's part of the route that I ride every day. I'd put my money on someone from one of the side streets pulling out in front of the cyclist as he was descending Dexter towards downtown - as many drivers, especially those in cars that ride low to the ground - can have a hard time seeing cyclists over all of the cars parked along the side of the road, and most cyclists are moving along at a pretty good clip on this stretch. I'd like to hear more details about this accident if anyone knows them....

It's been at least a week since someone asked about when the Guidebook will be out so.....

Got it. Thanks for taking the time to spell that out for me. Definitely sounds like a much safer and more enjoyable way to exit the upper Kautz than slogging up the Chute O' Death underneath the icecliff. I'm not a real fan of unnecessary exposure to objective hazards, so the trip back under that thing was probably the least enjoyable part of the day for me, including the puking. Thanks again,

Good info. I want to make sure that I totally understand what you did though. Did you just keep descending straight down once you hit the base of the ice chute, then just veer to the (descending) climber's left once you cleared the intermediate rock band? How far below the chute is the rock band? Which side was the rope on? I'm trying to piece this together based on what I remember of the route. The big picture - keep descending then climb the break on the left - makes sense but I can't quite place the rock band. Thanks,

Nope.

Don't worry - I did not and do not have any intention of ever getting on that route myself. Just wondering if anyone besides the FAs had ever done it. I'd be willing to help replace the bolts for the benefit of climbers bolder than myself though...

And while I've got Static on the brain... Anyone know if Artie Rip has had any repeat ascents?

Nice to meet you guys too. Sorry for subjecting you two to the Lamaze breathing at the crux . In hindsight, I'd have to say that was the best pitch I've climbed at Static so far although, as with the business pitch on Online, it may be a while before I feel the need to do it again. The next visit out there will definitely begin at the Spaceport....

Nice! Post photos.

Speaking of Static Point and Bolts.... Gaston_Lagoffe and I were planning to upgrade some of the hardware out there this weekend, but we didn't pull all of the gear together in time so we just went climbing there instead to do some "Research." Anyone looking for a project should look no further than Offline, as most of the bolts below the 9+ pitch that parallels Online's crux are rusty, 1/4" buttonheads. Anyhow - it was a beautiful day up there And we ran into Smoker and Co. at the crux pitch of Online.. Making us look like a couple of pansies in our double Carhartt's while they climbed in shorts.... Great routes, great day, great setting...

Nice going Bill! I should be able to burn the photos onto a CD today and get them in the mail next week. Some of them didn't turn out as well as I had hoped, but I think one or two of them will be worth hanging on to.

I'm almost there. I'll post a how-to book with photos when I'm done. I think that my first post on this thread has been misconstrued. What I really meant was:

Do you have examples of where this was ever done, or is this just a straw man? C'est un homme de straw. Rhetorical device. Canard. Though someone can surely find an example, I am sure. More common (I think) is someone doing a crap/dangerous bolting job (groundfall potential while clipping the third bolt, etc) and getting upset when someone rebolts it. I am not against dangerous routes in principle - they have their place - I just don't think that they belong in popular, easily acessible areas that have been developed with a different ethic. I have no more problem with someone rebolting a dangerously bolted route in an area like this than I do with someone chopping an overbolted route in an area know for lots of commitment and long run-outs.

I think that I am pretty much with you on this one Matt - what I am talking about not so much the placement of individual bolts as it rap-bolting an R/X line with serious groundfall potential for no other reason than stroking one's own ego. Not a very common phenomenon, and when it does occur it is rarely, if ever done at a popular crag with a sport ethic.

Yeah- pretty much. The word that comes to mind is contrived. It seems like most of the run-out routes out there were put up in that fashion for a variety of genuine reasons, e.g. the bolts were going in by hand, or on lead, it was getting dark, a storm was rolling in, the route was too remote to drag in a hilti, etc. - or that was just how things were done in that time/and or place. This certainly does not apply to all such routes, but in the places that I am most familiar with the last thing on the FA's mind was intentionally making a route that would be excessively dangerous, even if that is how the routes turned out in the end. Putting up death routes on rappell in the middle of a popular sport-climbing area is just as lame as putting up a grid-bolted cruiser at an area with a bolt-free ethic.