Don_Gonthier

DFA aren't you a little far from home? I think you should run along home before one of the big kids steals your lunch money. Come on! quoting Alan Watts as an authority on climbing ethics. Get real. 'Oh, I got the pink point'. 'Oh, Oh, I think I'm having a redpoint'. How gay.

DFA, first I have nothing against any type of climbing or tactic that you chose to use to climb a route. I do like to climb sport routes. If I have to stick clip pre place gear on Gumby what does that matter to you. I would never say I could lead it. What bugs me a bit is that its cool for some and not for others. I've climbed at Smith many times over the last 12 years and have gotten a lot of shit in the process. If I left my draws on a 10d sport route I was working, do you think they would be there when I came back a week later? If you talk about removing eyesore gear from a climb, stuff that's been stting there for years, its 'Ohh thats Billy Bob Tight Pant's gear. If you take it down we'll hurt you'. I've been told I was a gumby for placing extra gear where all the other climbers don't and I've been told I was a danger to everyone else because I didn't place enough. I even remember when I was just a climber. Until one day when I was standing at the base of some 5.9 crack on Mesa Verde wall with of all things, a rack gear. Then I hear 'Oooh, Trad Climbers' like we were circus freaks. I was marked from that day on. For a lot of folks, the grade has little to do with why we climb. If a climb is 5.2 but looks cool, I'll do it. If its 5.11 and I have to pull on gear, who gives a shit. I won't feel to much different about the climb if you tell me I don't have the red point.

Lambone. If its not such a big deal, why give it a special name? Why don't you just say 'hey I lead that' or 'I fell on a that while toproping'? See, come on now, it is a big deal to you. You wish you could place the draws on lead, but ya can't, so you give it a special name to preserve your ego. Think about it. I'm sure most sport routes you climb it makes no difference, but there has to be a few that without hanging draws first you can't climb free. It dosn't matter if its only just a tiny bit easier. If you can't do it without pre placeing draws, you still can't do it. Changing the name of somthing dosen't change the thing. The thing I don't like is that while we all have a limit at which we all fall off, if a climber were to pre hang draws on a 10a he wouldn't get quite the respect that a climber prehanging draws on a 12a would get. Yet the tactics are exactly the same. Its all about ego. Lambone this is not an attack on you personally but just a random rant.

They should be chopped. Along with the new anchors on Vertical Therapy.

Hey Wayne. I was there a few weeks ago and it was fine. A few things have overgrown but nothing important and there are no crowds. Just like before Tim's guide came out. Its still closed to climbing though, so you got to be real low key and park the car down the road. I believe the county has given up on trying to quarry there because of land use laws and what not but, are unwilling to back down and open it up to climbing.

Believe it or not the Mounties are the red headed bastard step children of the Mazamas. The Mounties were started by folks who belonged to the Mazamas but lived in Seattle, check it out, or don't. Actually from my experience, the Mounties are as bad as most folks say and are slightly worse than the Mazamas. It stands to reason though, there are like 10 times the number of Mountaineers as Mazamas.

Matt, I understand your arguments and have thought of them myself but after getting on a few first ascents I have to say I don't agree. First if the crux is really 5.12 then 5.8 shouldn't be much of a problem. Most climbs I have been on were protected with a climber capable of doing the route in good style in mind. Second, on the few sport routes I have put up where I knew other climbers would be repeating those routes I have spent a good deal of time making sure they had enough protection and were clean. But on longer routes put up from the ground, I don't feel any responsibility to parties who may follow. The amount of work you are talking about is enormuse. Frankly most of the time I go climbing I don't think about the saftey of anyone but those in my own party.

Seems like a lot of hassle when the old method (a munter hitch) seemed to work fine for belaying from a fixed anchor. It seems to me that the folks at Petzl came up with a nice design to solve a problem that most American climbers would never run into. I mean how often does anyone here belay off the anchor from above? Don't get me wrong, I don't think its a bad way to go but most folks I know learned to belay off the harness so you could limit force on the anchor and redirect belays. Whats wrong with using a regular munter hitch? Yeah, they twist the rope but realy only when you are lowering or rappeling with it and this device won't allow for that anyway. So what the heck is this thing for? The Reverso would be awesome if you were guiding a couple of people on moderate terraine in the mountains. Think about it. The usual technique is for the guide to lead on doubles with each rope tied to one client. At the anchor the guide belays each rope with a munter hitch directly to the anchor and both clients climb at the same time maybe a few feet apart. It saves a lot of time and on moderate climbing its pretty safe. The only draw back is if one client falls the guide tends to ignore the other clients belay. This is where the automatic locking feature on the Reverso would come in handy and on a 10 pitch 5.2 nobodies getting lowered to the ground, you know what I mean. This method is used quite a bit in Europe and I've used it a few times myself. Look at page 230 in Selected Climbs in the Cascades and imagine what the anchor setup looks like. Petzl seems to be a good company but it seems to me the marketing of this is kind of suspect. In the situation you mention above where your partner is hanging, the Reverso actualy puts the climber in more danger. Setting up a system to take weight off the belay is not always simple and easy and deffinitly increases the danger far more than simply lowering someone with a munter. So you can go pay the 21.00 dollars for something that works great for somthing you will never do and works OK for what you actually do most of the time and might cause an epic, or you can stick with what your doing for free. I know what I'll be doing with my cash..

Bone, thanks for the instruction but I don't run the belay rope through tha anchor anyway. Generaly I tie the rope or clip a daisy to the anchor and sit down and belay directly off the harness. This way the climber has to move me before the anchor is loaded at all. Even with the belay rope running through the anchor while belaying a second, the forces will be pretty small, maybe 2 or 3 times body weight. If your anchor can't handle this you got other problems, after all, every toprope anchor doubles the force of the falling climber. Again the self locking feature only works when belaying a second, when you belay a leader you use it like a ATC or similiar device which I and almost every other american climber all ready has. Also how does learning another new device make it easier for begginers to move outdoors when learning to belay with almost any device take a couple hours and most work equaly well. It seems to me kind of the opposite, another device to remember, more chances to mess it up. My original point was not that the device is bad or not useful but, that Petzl was trying create a demand for equipement that is not usful to most climbers.

Portland Rock Climbs has been back in print for about 5 months now. I've seen them at Climb Max and REI so you could probably mail order it from ABC or REI. Oregon High by Jeff Thomas is also back in print.

Its been a while since I did it last (2 years) but it probably hasn't changed much. There are several routes but, the only one that appears to be done often is the South Face. It is usually done in 2 pitches, the first 3rd or 4th class and the second 5.5 or 6. A moderate rack will work fine, nuts, a few hexes up to a couple of inches. Cams of some tipe would be nice but probably aren't needed. Park your car off the side of I-84 west at the start of the gaurd rail. and walk west to the west side of the rock. If you park closer to the rock on the west bound side of 84 you may get towed, this has happen twice that I know of. Parking at the gate for the road to the base of Crown Point is an option but requires that you cross 84 which could be far more dangerous than any climbing. From the freeway drop down to the meadows on the southwest side of the rock and head toward the saddle on the east side. Once through the meadow fallow a steep trail to the notch, this trail can be nasty if wet. as you near the saddle follow a trail back to the west beneath the south face. The trail ends at a large tree and the start of the route. Climb a small buttress or rib west of the tree straight up to a ledge system about 70 or 80 feet. The west end of this ledge should have a small horn that can be straddled for a belay with nuts in small cracks behind to back it up. The second pitch steps east a few feet along the ledge then goes up to a shallow corner. This corner is pretty obvious from the freeway on the approach. follow the corner 60 or 70 feet till it almost ends then step out right and up to reach the east ridge which is followed to the summit. The entire ptch is about 120 to 130 foot long. On the summit you will find an anchor set in cement with a long chain. Two 50 meter ropes threaded though the end of the chain will allow you to get down in one rap with a few feet to spare. I have heard that someone has placed bolts on the ledge at the top of the first pitch which would allow for 2 single rope raps but I don't know this for a fact. It would be wise to wear helmuts on this or any route in the Gorge. While the rock is basalt like Vantage or Beacon it is not in colums. It resembles closly fitted bricks without morter, if a crack is large it is probably not solid. Test holds before using them and try to place your belayer out of the fall line if possible. While you are on top check out Crown Point across the freeway. There are about 6 or 7 routes on this beauty but again only one gets any traffic. Thats the big chimmeny on the right side off the face and leads to a minor summit called the Alpenjager. Its about 4 pitches of 5.6 and sees about a hundreth of the traffic of Roster (about 1 party every 2 or 3 years). About 3 miles east of Roster is the Pillars of Hercules. About 5.6 starting on the SE in a crack the route winds around to the north side to summit in one pitch. From a cable wrapped around the summit rap the south side with 2 ropes. Hope this helps. Don.

The Hammer is only a sandbag when compared to new sport climbs. When compared to other climbs at the same area ; Classic Crack, Sesame Street, Gandalf's Grip, Shear Stress and others at Broughtons and Beacon, it fits in fairly well. Look at it this way, if you can learn to handle 5.7s like the Hammer you won't be spanked when you travel and run into the same kind of thing somewhere else.

The most likely reason for the difference in listed strength is that the 125 pounds is not the breaking strength but the safe working load. The safe working load is usually between 10 and 20 percent of the breaking strength depending on the requirements of the industry for which the stuff is made. You might feel that 2 inch cable would be over kill but imagine if that 1 ton weight was hanging over your head every day for years say as a crane operator.

Has anyone done this route in the last year or so? Becky's guide shows a snow finger that connects with the Conrad. I was there 9/1/2001 and the glacier now appears to be maybe 50 feet lower requiring rock climbing. We traversed to the Meade glacier and finished by that route, which was actually pretty nice. I was wondering if the route was still doable without climbing any rock.

I don't believe all I read in the newspaper but from the Oregonian and my experience with Mt Hood National Forest. It sounds like the Forest Service's plan called for no restrictions on access on the south side but Wilderness Watch sued the Forest Service over the solitude issue. Some folks in the enviromental comunity are not climbers best friends. At least the guys on snowmobiles arn't trying to limit my access because they can see me from a mile away.