Jim

I know what you're saying but my reply is simple - that stuff isn't science, it's their PR based on science. I know that the basic science stuff can be used by advocate groups, but I gotta say that this administration is the worst for lying, twisting, and making up stuff while constantly trying to subvert environmental regulations. All for the benefit of a small group of industrialists - it's not benefiting you or me - that's for sure.

Rob - I agree with your first statement, that folks should be able to make decisions based on truthful policy admissions. The second, however, I would take exception with. A lot of the science that is being ignored or twisted by this administration is coming from the science community and those scientists within the federal agencies. They have no voice in scientific policy decisions these days. You are wrong. But I hope the storm is not headed your way.

No surprise here but this is how it work under the current administration. After working on a scientific panel review of recent studies we submitted our report (working for US Fish and Wildlife Service) on the status of the marbled murrelet. The small bird lives in old growth and is listed as threatened - and is of great interest to the timber industry. The panel included experts in genetics, population dynamics, population modeling, habitat, etc. Quite a diverse group from the US and Canada. The scientific report - in short - said the birds are in big trouble in CA and should likely be listed as Endangered, that the CA, WA & OR, and Alaska populations are distinct. And that the WA and OR populationss should remain listed as threatened. Yesterday the DC office of USFWS came out with their statment that concluded the exact opposite. The leaked orginal memo from the Portland regional office, which made the same conclusions as our science report, shows how the DC memo is just made up from thin air. I shouldn't be surprised, this crap just goes on and on. Rather than just say what they mean - which is we don't care about no stinkin' science - they try and make stuff up. Ugh. On the heels of that decision was the one that DC now says the Columbia River dams do not affect salmon . If the Bushies get in again (oh please, please no) count on a major effort to delist the spotted owl, murrelet, and salmon - all without any scientific justification. And then the ensuing onslaught of clearcutting and mining.

It's hot and humid, the cultural events are limited to NASCAR and high dinning is buffalo wings. But - there are some great amphibians and reptiles lurking in the SE. Seriously though - my sister lives in Wilmington SC and has the storm-tracker map with the magnetic storm eyes on here fridge. Some folks from my office are on FEMA duty in Florida, what a mess!

Certainly says a lot about journalistic standards these days when this is all the press drivel we hear for weeks on end. Good republican strategy however, to keep the conversation off the real problems. I'm gettin' a headache.

Incomprehensible

Web page opinions

I think you said "Here's some pretty good evidence..." If your backing away from this opinion piece of a website you posted then your orginal assertion is nothing more than opinion or another troll.

Oh this is good! Your convincing evidence is - I'm shocked - a Web Page! You've certainly made your case.

And that would be??

Older example -Chile. Salvador Allende was democratically elected. The US was worried about the Socialist wave spreading in South America and provided financing, funding, and intellegence for a coup. Allende was killed and Pinochet was put in place, we turned a blind eye to his death squads over the next 20 years. Similar situations in El Salvador and Guatemela. Recent past: We backed Sadaam until he didn't listen to orders anymore. Did we sqawk when he was using poison gas against the Kurds or Iranians? No - because he was serving a purpose. He held together a fractionious country, was a counter point to Iran's fundamental government, and sold oil to us. Current: Rather than put together a government in Afganastan that includes local coalitions, we choose a government that was put together by Wolfiwitz back in D.C., and contains folks that haven't lived there for 20 years. Harmet Karzi was picked for one reason, he was previously an employee of Unacal, which was pushing for the hugh gas pipeline that will go through Afganistan. Or you could pick our annual $3 Billion that goes to Israel, including major military hardware, which they use to control the Palestians. You can researh thru Amnesty Internation for Israel's track record. My bottom line is this - we'er a county of great folks (mostly) with quite a bit of weath. Can't we put that weath to use at home and abroad in ways that will benefit more people, and will be less intrusive than military spending. I think the answer is yes. And I don't mean isolationism. I mean no imperialism. You can be engaged in the world without depending on military or violent solutions as the standard approach.

See - you're making me do it!!

OK, I'll spoon fed you: 1) We say we love democracy but act differently around the globe. 2) We spend a lot of money doing #1 3) We could save money, stop harming innocents and meddling in foreign governments, and use our wealth for more productive purposes at home.

I did hear of such a board from a regular padder (I'm a novice. I'll ask about the site address and pass it on.

You're correct. The US has a long history of plotting coups, assainations, and general election muck-ups. In a word our approach is highly hypocritical. We SAY we value democracy, self-determination, and national soveignty, but at the same time we try to kill political leaders, have funded and organized coups of democratically elected officials, and generally attempted to destabalize countries that we don't like. Is there any wonder why the rest of the world sees us a threat equal to or greater than terrorists? Richard Pearle's new book says it quite bluntly. We should throw off the pretense that we care about anything other than our "national interests" (good code words those) and just take what we want and the hell with what other countries think.

Was in a yak for work yesterday on the NF Sauk. It was way up. Saw a massive Doug fir topple over from bank undercutting. Heads up for large woody debris.

My wife is a middle school science and health teacher in Seattle. This coming year they have one of these "peanut kids" coming to their school. The entire school staff has to have a couple hours of training on how to peanut-proof their classrooms. It sounds like a major hassel for all involved. I feel for the kid but the teachers don't have enough time to teach and plan for teaching as it is now. Wanna bet on how much the parent sue for if some kid leaves his Reeces Cup somewhere and the peanut kid sits in it?

With all the pressing issues in this country what is the press spending its time with - a debate over one candidates's war record from 30 years ago. Ya gotta hand it to Rove, he is a great manipulator. It's a great way to ignore the substantial issues. Let's focus on gay marriage, character assisination, and scaring the public with TERROR! George Orwell would be amused. "All that was required of them was a primitive patrotism which could be appealed to whenever it was necessary to make them accept longer working hours or shorter rations (or incompetent leaders)." - G.O.

Partially, but worthy questions!

If you go by the historcal tendencies cited above it doesn't look so good for us - the worker bees. I know - you may be afraid that Kerry would recklessly spend 10s of Billions of dollars on unnecessary foreign wars that drained the surplus the last Democratic administration built up, while giving a huge tax break to the richest americans. Or maybe he would preside over the worst jobs record since Hoover. Or maybe your worried that while our economy is going south we'll be pouring more and more funds into the pockets of defense contractors for unncessary programs such as an unproven space weapons program instead of building human capital through better schools and retraining programs. Or maybe your concern is that Kerry will outdo Regan, Bush I, and Bush II in the expansion of the federal government, particularly the military, while cutting non-essential services such as environmental and social services.

Stuff that isn't nearly as bad as what W was able to destroy before release. Except his National Guard records that are required by law to be held in the Texas State Archives. He can release these to the public via a signature.

I think this calls for another tax cut!

I agree. The few times I've been in there to look for what I considered obscure articles the staff were extremely helpful and knowledgeable. Also to Mountaineers Books that provides for publications of items that would not make it in the larger publishing houses.

That's the second time I've heard this. So it must be true!