carolyn

pope...and all... I do understand how important evaluation is. And I CAN get it. I do have friends who have been climbing anywhere between a couple years to over a dozen years. I just cant get them out as much as I would like to be out. So while they are working, travelling, etc and I want to be out learning, what are some SAFE ways I can continue to teach myself? pope, thank you for taking the time to respond and pointing out a seriously important aspect of learning. Maybe one thing I CAN do is when I know someone heading out to climb in an area which I think is above my head, instead of staying closer to home I could head out with them and just stay on the ground practicing and letting them evaluate in between their climbs.. I know I have already missed an opportunity like this at least twice in the past month. Time for work... have a good one!

First all, let me thank everyone out there for putting up with my numerous questions. especially when most of them might seem so basic. Let me throw out another one to all of you if you dont mind. Before my visit to the NW last month most of the rock climbing I did involved someone setting up a toprope for me and then climbing. While on my trip I had the opportunity to climb in a few different places where people showed me how to set anchors, place gear, etc. Ive struggled with finding a regular partner here in Mpls. For some odd reason, learning all aspects of climbing has become a priority for me these days (I know, kind of wierd, huh? ). I have yet to meet anyone out here with the same goals. Schedules often conflict as well. Im sick of waiting for others to have the time to go out or teach me what I need to know, So I have taken it apon myself to self teach Now, I KNOW I cant teach myself everything. But I sure can get a good start. Ive met some great people out at the crags who have given me some good suggestions on things to practice. I also have a wonderfully BUSY mentor who has given me bits of his rack. Here are some things I have been doing...*finding cracks near the ground to practice placements.*after making placements, setting up a hanging belay, equalizing the cordelette, hanging on it and bouncing around a bit to see how well they hold.*hanging on each piece individually.*hanging a sling from a piece and stepping on the sling so I can reach up and put in another placement and hang. ( I have to admit, by the time I figured this one out today I was running out of time and opted not to hang from the second placement..got a bit of the jitters, especially after a slight spill I took right before that )*set up a hanging belay and rapp down a very SHORT ledge*been reading long's book on anchors and reviewing things in the freedom of the hills book. So, Im wondering what others have done to help teach themselves and give them confidence when they cant find a partner to climb with? AND...what have you done that you WOULDNT suggest other people do (mistakes you have made which could have cost you dearly)? I appreciate any suggestions. carolyn

I found this while surfing the other night...http://www.tradgirl.com/rc/faq8c.htm#belayloop I particularly like the first entry.

terminal, just out of curiousity...how much DID you get those tickets for? and are you flying into argentina or chile? Dont forget a good report and some pics to post...otherwise I might have to hunt you down when Im back in the area next spring. Have a FUN and SAFE trip!!!!! Oh yes, and I will be spending as much time as possible on the ice between mpls and ontario. Looking to get some dogsledding, winter camping, and...skiing in (believe it or not I have NEVER been skiing ). I LOVE winter! [ 10-26-2001: Message edited by: carolyn ]

Mark Twight is speaking in mpls, not seattle on 11/10. sorry. I just interviewed to be a stock girl horror for the expo so I can get that massive discount. If Im real lucky they might let me belay on the ice wall. Might not leave me time to see twight. But I will try. oooh...we got an inch of snow last night! Too bad its all blown to hell from the 50 mile an hour wind! Windchill...well below zero all day!Gotta LOVE minnesota!

summitseeker, yes, I have BEEN there, but never climbed. It is AMAZING and cant wait until I actually have the chance to climb there instead of just watch other people climb (well its actually hard to WATCH unless you are really brave to peer over the edge while not tied into something ). Still working on building up my resources...equipment, climbing partners, skills, etc. The entire climbing area is actually closed right now due to a large rockfall which took place last week. Havent heard of any accidents taking place due to it, thank goodness. Patience is a virtue so they say...*sigh* Spent a lot of time backpacking up there on the Superior Hiking Trail this summer. Ever been? , carolyn [This message has been edited by carolyn (edited 10-23-2001).]

Thanks for asking this question nuts-n-screws! Ive often wondered this myself. As someone who is employed facilitating ropes courses we NEVER use ONLY the belay loop, except for the climbing tower at one of the places (the other goes underneath the belay loop and thru everything). If we are using two lines out of the harness, one goes thru the belay loop, the other thru everything (incl. the belay loop). When I started climbing myself I often questioned the strength of the loop itself. and what about redundancy? I often go thru both the legs and the belay loop (does that make sense?). It sounds like most people are confident with just using th belay loop. The more I learn about the strength of things, the more amazed I am...as if its almost hard to believe. Does anyone know if there has EVER been an accident because of somones belay loop popping out of the seams without any forseen wear and tear on it? carolyn

I LOVe reading these posts of what people climbed over the weekend (thank you to those who start it and participate in it). Makes me jealous! Here in MN, I spent a night climbing in the gym for the first time since my elbow injury. Made it thru a half dozen climbs before it started hurting again...a couple more and I was done in. Lugged around and spread woodchips in various areas of the ropes course where I work on Sat. Some hammering nails on platforms and chopping wood. Can we say SORE arms!*sigh* I figure its good to get paid to get in shape for the ice though Took a friend to an ice climbing clinic at a local gear shop later that eve (they have one of those styrofoam pinnicles). Since it was a women's clinic, I met a few potential women partners for the winter.(strangely enough I have never met a woman who ice climbs here in MN) Sunday was WARM here...60's. I went out to a local crag and practiced setting up topropes, anchors, and placing gear. Got some bouldering in...and after dropping my trekking poles, wound up having to free climb a rock about 100 ft up from the water in order to reach a spot where I could go down and retrieve them (after leaving a pair on mt.baker during my visit, I wasnt about to lose another pair!). Might be "nothing" to people who are out climbing all the time. But to me it was pretty nervewracking. It was definately a good learning weekend for me!

Again, thanks for all the suggestions. I have had quite a few people suggest Scarpa Invernos to me - both on this site and in the stores and climbing community around here (what there is of one here anyway ) While I was in a local gear shop (NOT rei ) this weekend I spoke to someone a little more on the boot issue and tried on the Invernos. The guy suggested I apply to work their winter expo. I guess they hire people to lug around tables, direct people, etc. In exchange you get paid (just over min wage) and then can use your check toward employee prices for gear. He wouldnt tell me how much it would be discounted off the 419.00!!!! He did tell me If I worked three days I would DEFINATELY be able to purchase them with just the money I make from the expo. Im scheduled to work the entire weekend for my other job. Trying to get out of it. Sent in my appl. today. Fingers are crossed! Oh ya, Mark Twight and Peter Athens are scheduled to do presentations at the expo (not together ). Anyone seen either of them speak? We are pretty starved for climbing entertainment out here, though...so anything will do. Im curious to hear Mark's presentation though. Anyway, thats my update on the boot situation. keep those fingers crossed that they will hire me for the weekend and I can get out of my other job! chau!carolyn ooops, my mistake...nepal extremes are the boots Ive been looking at , not invernos. [This message has been edited by carolyn (edited 10-24-2001).] [ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: carolyn ]

haireball, The most recent experiences I have had there wasnt even in the footwear dept. Camping..and then last night in climbing. On the other side of the coin I HAVE had some decent help there as well. Mike...spikes on my shoes, huh? Very creative. Thanks for the idea... I think by the time I figure out how to make them I might as well spend my time chopping steps on vertical routes and climb in my mukluks. Hmmmmmmmm? Maybe that is the solution, huh?!?!?!?! Could be some good learning there..and definately some weary arms!

hehe This made me laugh. Thanks for the giggle and the response Jerry.

Hey thanks for all the great thoughts everyone! Yes, bronco an all around climbing boot is ideal. Im gonna be scraping just to get one pair. I cant afford two different tpes to fit my mood of the day unfortunately at this point in my life. If I was planning on staying in MN and only using them to climb vertical ice, the decision would be easy....plastic. But my plans have me venturing off to visit other places with the possibility of moving in the next couple years. I hope that whatever I decide will be practical for where ever I might end up (ya, I may be asking the PNW to adopt me in the near future ) Again, thanks for the thoughts. Im learning when I want to make an important purchase like this I need to gather as much info as possible and KNOW exactly what I want when I walk into REI (which happens to be the most reasonably priced store in the area). Otherwise they tend to try and sell what "they" think is best for you instead of giving you the information you need and HELPING you make a decision that is really best for YOU. I dont get it? They individually dont make anything off what they sell do they? Okay, sorry...I just had yet another bad experience at REI last night. I will get off the tangent. Maybe I should just send them a letter expressing my concerns instead. *hmmmpppffff* I cant believe it, but Im leaning toward leather...I will check out the sites a few of you left for me. And maybe with rei canning their rentals they will be selling boots cheap and I COULD potentially afford two different kinds! carolyn

lambone, okay , let the newbie in me shine Lambone, how do you think? I guess my understanding is because plastic is stiffer it is easier on vertical ice. Although, I havent used leather while climbing vertical ice, so I dont know. Shit, I had another thought/question and Ive totally spaced it... Oh well. I think I need to go to sleep. Its much later here! Night!

Okay, so I am going to be investing in a pair of my first "real" boots this winter. I had just rented from REI last winter, but they are cutting out their rental dept from what I hear, so I am S.O.L. I need my own pair anyway, since one of my climbing goals is to be more independant and not have to keep borrowing (or renting) from others. Im ready to make the commitment! I had been renting Koflachs all last winter which I really liked. My feet tend to get cold easily - Koflach's kept them pretty toasty (better than my mukluks I must say!) A good friend of mine swears by leather. It seems like plastic is better on vertical ice (which is what we have here in MN and Ontario) because it is more stiff. Its also warmer (on my feet). On the other hand, plastic is pretty darn bulky. Leather might be more practical - I can use them for hiking, backpacking, etc here in mn, ice climbing, and for my trips out west in the mountains. Thoughts? Suggestions? Thanks! carolyn ps...warm feet are VERY important to me!

Rick, I just put down In the Zone last week. I was curious again after you asked about how the accident happened. I went back and looked thru it a bit. He seemed to elude to the fact that the belayer did something, but wouldnt come right out and give specifics. AJ, I find it interesting that in the presentation he wouldnt really answer the question, too. I think earlier in the story the author also mentioned being irritated that it was taking his partner so long to set up the belay. Or am I getting it confused with another story. In the story, there is no specific reasons mentioned, other than he couldnt find anything but little knobs for his feet, he slipped, yelled "falling", and wound up hanging from his rope right above the ledge. *shrugs* who knows

Right now... I just want to learn enough of everything so I have options. I prefer ice. I wanna learn how to ski. And I want to dogsled a few more times in the near future. I think it would be fun to learn how to combine the last two and do some skijorning! WAAAAAAAAAAAY Later... I want to climb Aconcagua, Polish route.

Hollyclimber, Youre reading my mind. I just finished another book today and will be due for a trip to the bookstore tomorrow! I go in spurts with reading...right now I cant seem to read enough. I admit Im a John Grisham junkie. Tonight I just finished Winterdance by Gary Paulsen about running the Iditarod. Good story, but the writing was a little irritating. Cascadeclimber-I started In the Zone last week and zipped thru it in about two days. I REALLY liked it. The story of the folks on Foraker really got to me. Nanda Devi was okay, but I got a bit sick of the bickering going on. Seems like there were a lot of different sides to the story. I would have been interested in hearing them. Walk in The Woods by Bill Bryson kept me laughing a alot! Touching the Void was great. Crossing the Antarctica by Will Stegar (local MN folk) is one of my all time favorites. Within My Reach...cant remember the author, but written by a 17 yr old who climbed everest (didnt summit if I remember correctly). He is just so frank. And the resourcefulness /creativity of being so young was inspiring. To the Summit by Margo Chisholm is what got me thinking that maybe I COULD start getting involved with climbing. I read a lot of books on wolves. (other animals as well) Among Grizzlies by Timothy Treadwell was a recent one I enjoyed. I do read over a lot of my books on backpacking trails in MN again and again and again...kind of what you were talking about hollyclimber...looking at what you have done and what you want to do...planning the next excursion. As a beginner, I get sucked into my Freedom of the Hills book a lot as well. Happy reading! Carolyn [ 10-27-2001: Message edited by: carolyn ]

newbie, congrats on following thru with something you seemed to want to do so badly. It must have been an incredible experience for you. I appreciate the thought you put into describing it for us. I spent a day on the nisqually glacier with a friend of mine who guides for rmi (in fact he was probly one of your guides) about a week after your ascent. this was the first time I had ever seen the mountain (I live in MN). I was in complete awe - just loved it! Im very very sorry to hear about your friends. Im glad you were able to keep them with you to help you achieve your goal. My guess is there will always be a piece of them on that mountain now. A lot of people I ran into while I was out in the NW seemed to think being in the mountains during the tragedy was the best place to be. In a way, it was probably true. I spent a night on Baker with no planes flying overhead. On the other hand, I found it difficult to concentrate as much as I would have liked to. I wound up turning back on one of my trips - not JUST because of the turmoil- but reflecting on the days now, I think it played a big part in it. I didnt realize rmi included so many people on their summit attempts. I would imagine that in itself is difficult. So many personalities, so many logistics. Your perspective was enlightening and I will definately keep it in the back of my mind. Im sure there will be a day that I will save up enough money and need to be part of a guided trip in order to accomplish a particular goal. Anyway, best of luck in your future endeavors. I really enjoyed reading about your progress and success. be well, be safe, carolyn

Did you go? How was the trip?

My only experience on ice in the NW was last week at this time on Nisqually. It was AWESOME! The trek out there on the scree and talus slopes had a lot to be desired. Things were rolling down from every which way on the mountain and under our feet. Once we were out on the glacier it was hard to decide what we wanted to climb first. Too many good options to choose from! Just got back to MN tonight. We are looking at a freeze advisory in the southern part of the state! The northern part has been in the upper 20's the past few nights. More rain, more nights like this and we will be climbing ice out here soon!!!!

cavey, Fortunately for you my next scheduled appearance at a pub club probly wont be until next may or june...so you have plenty of time to practice chugging!

*sticks her tongue out at chris-w* Alright! I AM quitting!!!!! Just dont send me the bill for dry cleaning , Please! Next pubclub I attend I will be smoke free!

Well, again let me thank all of you who helped give me ideas of things to do or met with me and took me places while visiting the NW. I had an absolutely wonderful time! Couldnt have asked for better weather , either! As much as I wanted to get home, I had a really hard time leaving. Let me give you a run down of the fun I had! I started in Portland, staying with a couple good friends of mine. We did a hike up saddle mountain on the one unclear day, so I didnt see much. The next day they took me out to Hood. We hiked up the mountaineers trail to the top of the ski lift. What an amazing mountain. I found it to be one of the more beautiful ones. Later when my uncle took me out and about in the Gorge we stopped for lunch near Hood River with a great view of the other side, which I liked even more. I also spent a day hiking around on a ridge next to Mt.St.Helens. Fascinating area! A wonderful cc.com lurker took me out to Smith Rock for a weekend. I enjoyed this a great deal. Im not a fantastic rock climber, in fact I pretty much suck! I learned an awful lot though and enjoyed the challenge and atmosphere. I moved on toward Bellingham and out to Mt.Baker. I hiked up Heliotrope (spelling?) ridge and spent the night up there next to the glacier. I wish I would have spent more time there. So much to do! There was a great big rock made for some good bouldering. Had I been with another person, or very experienced it would have been great to climb around on the glacier and in/out of the seracs and crevasses. The view was spectacular! No one else was there, so it was quite peaceful (except for the marmots constant whistle). Onward to Cascade Pass and Sahale arm. I got up to cascade pass and bailed from there. I was sick of the switchbacks, it was late, and I was just not mentally into it for some reason. I really needed a chill day with NOTHING but sitting around , reading, etc. I figured if my head wasnt into it, it wouldnt be safe. I think I made a good decision. I do however hope to get back there and try it again. Just when I thought the scenery couldnt get any better, my heart stopped again at the site of the mountains. It was neat to see the ice/snow falling off of Johannasburg. I sat and watched it for a long time, thinking "do it again! I want to see it again, please".hehehehhehe I met up with Beck the next weekend. (thank you for squeezing me in , beck ). I had a lazy weekend of camping, sleeping, and reading while he climbed all over the mountain in a hail storm. We went up to the climbers bivy area on Mt.Adams at one point. Saw the beginning and progression of a forest fire, which was amazing to watch! My final destination was to meet a friend in Ashford. We went onto the Nisqually glacier to do some ice climbing. Whoaaaaaa! What an amazing experience! I never thought scree and talus could be such a pain in the arse..but now I know! It was definately challenging. Once we got onto the glacier I was struck with some unexpected fear....or more like terror. Climbing around on the seracs was fun, but eventually brought me to a stop for a while due to fear. The more time I spent on them, though a bit of the fear disappeared. We set up a top rope and did a few climbs. Unfortunately we couldnt get my crampons to adjust so I had to use some rmi rentals which wouldnt stick in the ice for the life of me. I learned a lot about chopping steps. I thought it was great to be able to climb on a bit of ice that had never been climbed before and never will be again. it made me start itching for ice season to start out here in the Midwest! The last day I spent climbing next to the Teiton(?)River. This was the first time I had ever done any crack climbing. It was really great...and good learning experience. Oh ya...and for those of you who missed last weeks pub club, too bad! I made my appearance. I think that pretty much covers the BASICS of the trip. I learned so much about myself, climbing, the mountains, etc. I imagine its going to take a bit of time to process it all. I cant wait to come back and even venture off to other areas of the country in the near future! Thanks again for having me out in your beautiful part of the country! be well, be safe, (and for those of you at the pubclub...fuck you! hehehehhe) carolyn

Hey there! Just wanted to thank all of you who have been so patient with me and all my questions over the past month or so. After giving a local gearshop my arm and leg for the remainder of the gear I needed, I have finished up my packing (and boy am I BAD at it!). I drive about five hours to "dairyland" (thats wisconsin ) to visit with the parents for a day before heading off to the great NW! After reading responses to my posts and others I have developed a good sense of what I am doing and where I am going (without making any definate plans). Im extremely excited and nervous at the same time. However, I know with the help I have received it will make for a GREAT learning experience! Thanks again! And I will update you as soon as I return! Be well, Be safe, carolyn

Yaaa! A question a Minnesotian is qualified to answer! GOOD long underware (tops and bottoms) - midweight zip tops are wonderful. Fleece pants I have slept with my mukluck linings on my feet...guessing muklucks arent top priority on a mountain so I will vote for down booties! I have friends who absolutely LOVE them! You can also make good camp "booties" with liners from sorells (or whatever) and then cover them with a sleeping bag sack. Sinch it around your ankles. Basically a cheaper, lighter version of mukluks have to admit the hand/foot warmers do WONDERS. you can usually get them cheap from a gas station. Buy 'em in the summer and they are cheaper. I have a shit load of them (also EXTREMELY helpful in the mitts when ice climbing). They actually have some that are reusable if you dont want to produce the extra paper/garbage. balaclava....a THICK one! Hats! Hats! and more Hats! Last but not least, consider what your sleeping bag is rated at. Ive done winter camping in a variety of bags...0 degrees or below makes a world of difference! *waiting patiently for snow and ice here in MN* Be well, Be safe, (and be warm) carolyn