carolyn

The compassion and concern on this thread is both inspiring and encouraging. Wishing everyone involved continued strength and courage. sickie

*Missing Uncle Tricky* ME TOO! I've been wondering where he is myself! In fact I did a recent search of his posts to see when he was last around. Maybe I will try calling again. Probly working hard on his house? PATRICK - COME FORWARD AND WALK TOWARD THE LIGHT!!!!!!!!! baa

some right wing jerkoff radio talkshow host in Oregon... ahhh! I just did a search and now I see. The link to the aol postings on the subject truly put my faith back in humanity.

who is lars larson?

This is like trying to talk to my MOM!

hahaha! There ya have it folks!

Is this for real?

Alright, I'll bite! I'm also going to gear this toward the many guests we have on the site recently. I imagine the question was put out there with the intentions to help those who dont climb understand why. Why climb, knowing that I am risking a severe injury or death? Well, first let me say, I do everything in my power to reduce those risks. I read about safety, I ask others who know more, I watch, I've taken classes, and I use my judgement/gut feeling. I would be willing to bet that 99% (ok, maybe 98% ) of climbers do the same. Personality might dictate one's judgement from another. Overall, safety calls are typically made with the desire and intention to get home safely. I would not consider myself a big risk taker, despite what the non-climber might think. I often wonder if I could climb bigger and better things if I wasnt so cautious and fearful. I've climbed in the mountains a few times. Though I like the challenge, various aspects of it are not something I aspire to do on a regular basis (unless there is a big wall of rock or ice on the distance ). I prefer to stay closer to the road and return to my tent, hostel, car, or home every night or so. There are still plenty of risks in what is often considered 'cragging'. I actually consider myself a magnet for falling objects and have suffered numerous concusions from it. I've also had to deal with a broken leg due to a bouldering fall. So, why? Being outside is something I enjoy. It's often beautiful beyond belief. It's educating, and inspiring. The lessons I learn and can carry into my daily life are invaluable. In return, those lessons get passed on in my interactions with others and hopefully get passed on...and on...and on. It brings me a feeling of calm and focus that I have not been able to experience before. Again, being able to bring that into my daily life is invaluable to my physical, emotional, and spiritual self. It's given me confidence in myself as a person because of the self-sufficiency often required. It's forced me to reach out and ask for/receive help in order to be more proficient and safe (not something that has always been easy for me to do). So, I guess in some ways its also been humbling - a feeling everyone should experience in order to grow as a human being. The physical challenge is unreal at times! It's awesome to see how powerful determination and hard work can be. Again, its also quite humbling when you dont succeed, only to add fuel to the fire and display resilience to yourself. I stay healthier because of what I need to do to take care of myself in order to reach certain goals. Socially, the folks I have met are awesome! In general, climbers I have met hold some of the same values and beliefs I do. I have also met a number of people, who are now good friends, that I would not have met if I didnt climb-because they DONT hold the same belief system as I do. I cant imagine my life without some of those people. I know this might sound cheesy, but climbing has changed my life in a direction I never would have expected. It honestly inspired me to live when I wasn't sure if I wanted to. I bet everyone has something like this in their life, whether it be a pet, hobby, sport, or loved one. Different personalities require different types of activities to inspire them. Climbing is one of those things for me. So, to say it's too risky? Well, I honestly think, for myself, it would be too risky not to climb.

my heart goes out to those who lack compassion and respect for others. I agree with griz's sentiments above. There is too much defensiveness in Phil's tone and choice of words. He is not open to hearing the knowledge, opinions, and choices of others unless they coincide with his. Most likely the speculations and doubts are fear-based. Im going to take a guess that needing to control outcomes is an important value in phil's life. I can respect and even relate to that to a degree. However, it would be more beneficial in discussions like this if that value was not pushed onto all of society. How fair would it be if I told you (or anyone else) that they were NOT allowed to wear a life jacket, a helmet while climbing or biking, a seatbelt, etc for whatever reason I felt was valid? That is taking away your choice and value/need to feel safe (whether realistic or perceived). If my values are not the same as you, then so be it. Please dont imply that mine are wrong. If you ever need help due to what may appear to others as an unnecessary risk, I hope they will respect your decision and help you to get home safe, sound, and warm.

Dude! You WILL be climbing again someday. I just may have to be YOUR ropegun for a while, though. Hang in there!

I have been spending way too much time watching these posts. Ive also been spending too much time biting my tongue. Im not one to get into debates on this forum, however, Im feeling the need to vent... First, the statement regarding how the resucuers are coming down and if the climbers had an mlu with them that they would likely be coming down now as well, if not earlier this week is completely ignorant and disrespectful. Whether you believe they should have had one or not, I believe the statement demonstrated a great lack of compassion for EVERYONE immediately involved in the situation. Second, In regards to comparison to lifejackets, floating devices, water wings, etc I believe that is a matter of choice - just like the MLU. I dont go out on boats often, but when I do, sometimes I wear a lifejacket. Other times I do not. It's My choice as I assess the risk. When I ride my bike to the grocery store 2 blocks away, I decide if I want to wear a helmet or not (no laws here). I assess the risk and make a choice. When I go climbing, I choose when I will wear a helmet (which is pretty much always for me). I assess the risk and make a choice. I may or may not choose to walk by myself to my car at 2am after work. Again, I assess the risk and make a choice. Everyone perceives risk differently. What may be scary and dangerous to me, you might not think twice about. You look at your skills, your judgement, your experience, and the hazzards. Putting all of that together, you make the best choice for yourself. Implying that someone's choice was bad because it is different from yours, especially when one doesnt know the facts surrounding the situation shows a lack of compassion and ignorance IMHO. I think its great the amount of traffic this site is seeing. I like that people are asking question - because they honestly want to know, rather than because they want to rip on someone elses faults. I also appreciate the honest response from regular members here. Though it has its quarky people (hehe) , I have a great deal of respect for the knowledge and opinions that get passed back and forth. I dunno, maybe Im just bumming right now cause my trip to Ouray has been delayed or possibly cancelled. Anyone got some time to head out there and climb?

hey kurt! keep posting. Your sense of humor is much appreciated! Btw...thanks for the card!

Eh? I didnt know you spoke that way in Washington!

Depending on the driver, I expect we wont leave until saturday. I can hang there until xmas, then its off to visit long lost family in the area. I would love to hook up for a beer or climbing if anyone's interested.

Sending well wishes and hoping for the best!

Damn! Thats awesome! Can I rent it the next time I'm out that way visiting?

Thanks for the reminder to be cautious. I did speak with the dr today and have a plan. Im likely hanging out in Ouray most of the time, so I dont have to worry about long approaches or being in a remote area. Have all of you had asthma your entire life or did you get it as an adult?

I would agree with Ryland. It's way too easy to overgrip with leashless. Try and bring some awareness to that while you are climbing. The hanging on a doorframe or pullup bar at home is right on. I struggle with going from drytooling (usually barehanded) to ice (full on gloves). Maybe wear gloves while doing your reps at home? The best part about leashless is the the ability to take rests and the manouverability (is that a word?) of releasing my hands to switch tools (mini-rest). Take advantage of those aspects. What tools are you climbing on? -c

Mike, are you sure this wasnt your favorite climb?

I figured mike would pick imaginary voyage. Personally, I liked Illusion Dweller and Sidewinder the best!

crap! Will try reposting the photos later

I cant believe I just read all 23 pages of this post! The joys of unemployment, eh?

Just wanted to give a shout out from the Midwest! Its been a long time since Ive spent time checking in here. Life is good at the moment. I am unemployed (well, extremely underemployed) and loving it. It's giving me a chance to do some things I could never get done while working 40+ hrs a week. Im currently developing a wilderness therapy program for a company up north.(very time consuming!) Co-leading a few women's winter trips in the boundary waters. Planning a couple women's climbing weekends through the YMCA. And, teaching various women's clincs at the local gear shop. Since the onset of the asthma back in Feb, Ive pretty much been sick. Very little climbing. I've recently had the longest stretch of NOT being sick since Feb - 3 months!!!! Sadly, I now have a cold, but it has yet to put me in the hospital! Im hoping we have figured out a medication regimine that will keep it under control for the most part. the non-smoking thing is going well, overall. I slip from time to time, but still committed to becoming a non-smoker. :tup:Obviously it irritates the asthma, which prevents me from being able to climb. Im hitting the road next weekend. Either boulder canyon or ouray, then visit family for the holidays. I havent climbed much this year because of being so sick. I have however, been able to climb more the past month or two. Its tough to feel so weak - knowing you 'used' to be able to climb 'this' faster, or 'that' better. I believe patience is an important aspect to climbing, so i am now being tested. The ice is JUST starting to form out here. it's been mostly drytooling. Hopefully when I return from colorado,global warming will not be too evident, and there will be something to climb. I expect to spend a fair amount of time in Orient Bay, Ontario. I think that about covers it. I really missed being able to head out to the PNW this fall. I'm aiming to make it up by coming out this spring. I promised AlpineK I would be there the first few weeks he is at home, to help him out. So, which ever one comes sooner. I have some pictures from the N.shore and ice last year I will try and post in the gallery in the next few days. Happy climbing! carolyn