klenke

One of those has got to be our very own goatboy. I checked the User List and there's a Goat_Boy too, so maybe he's in the picture too. And it appears there's a Goathorn too, but he/she aint posted much. To round out, two of the last three must be Billygoat and Billy_Goat, though the latter of these appears to have zero posts. I can't tell who the last of the sextet is.

Yep, definitely a thinker. Yep, we all know that when that shoe slips, no use thinking it's gonna restick itself. Nope, better pick it up and reapply it or hope it slides down to a suitable foothold. Or you can leave it and scratch like hell.

Touche. Of course, you have to remember, Trask started this thread. You know you have to spell things out for him. I-s-n-'t t-h-a-t r-i-g-h-t, Trask?

Hmmm, Red Sox vs. Cubs in World Series. If it happens (and that's a BIG if), who do you root for? Maybe you're right. In the grand scheme of the time continuum, neither of these teams is allowed to win it all anymore. Therefore, Armageddon must occur before the deciding game (or right before the last deciding pitch).

Good points, Tod. However, I would like to qualify that the naming of peaks that went on prior to the advent of mountaineering is not really germane to the debate here regarding FA naming rights. Back in the 18th and 19th Centuries, only those commonly seen peaks were named (for point of reference purposes). These were usually the most prominent peaks such as Baker, Rainier, and maybe Mt. Pilchuck. Captain Vancouver and his compatriots certainly didn't care to name this little blip or that little blip on the mountainous horizon (blips such as Big Bear Mountain south of Three Fingers or even Mt. Si). Over the years of the last Century, peak naming has progressed downward to less and less prominent peaks. First it was the real big boys who were given names (Rainier and Baker). Next it was high peaks around mining areas (peaks in the Monte Cristo area, for example). Then, with mountaineering coming vogue in the 30's, noteworthy peaks on the horizon as seen from other peaks by those early climbers were named (can't think of an example). The next wave of naming came with Beckey and all his FAs of peaks all over the place (Snagtooth Ridge peaks, for example). The most recent wave could perhaps be attributable to the likes of the Fireys and John Roper (Genius Peak south of Dumbell, for example). These most recent names are for peaks of even less prominence (Beckey's many crag names notwithstanding). In the next wave of naming (new names, not renaming), what is left? Of course it would have to be ridge blips of even less prominence, for they are all that is left to be named (in the explored areas of the Cascades, at least). There are plenty of unnamed and unclimbed peaks in northern B.C.. The naming revolution has only just begun for these.

Ray said, "Whether there is some animosity or difference you two may have is up to you. I dont really care." Well, you must care because you felt the need to stick up for your idol and personal friend in your last post. I am damn thankful to Fred for his CAG guides. Be that as it may, I certainly don't worship the guy. I felt no need to shake his hand when I first came to be in his presence at a Pub Club. If it had not been Beckey who wrote the guidebooks, I'm sure someone else would have. Whether or not that other person would have done a better job is debatable. I would have to say he/she probably wouldn't have been as thorough as Beckey. That notwithstanding, the guidebooks Beckey has put out are not infallible. There are errors in it. These errors need to be fixed. They will be fixed in due time. Since the Cascades are a huge range of many mountains with many approaches and climbing possibilities, I do cut Beckey a fair measure of slack. With all that information to organize, he's bound to have slipped up here and there.

Fox: A = Tomyhoi most likely Fury = East Fury. West Fury (Fury's highest point) is to the left of where you have labeled. G = probably something on the ridge between East McMillan Spire and Elephant Butte. There are a couple of bumps in that ridge between those two peaks. G is probably one of those. Spickard = Not Spickard. Spickard is the highest peak in that area, therefore it would appear taller as such. What you've got labeled as Spickard would have to be something between Fury and Luna, which is just out of view to the right. Spickard would be visible too, but farther off the right edge of the image. Looking at my mapbook, the peak you've labeled Spickard may be Red Face Mountain (7,174 ft) or something in the vicinity thereof. H = God knows...but he probably doesn't care either

Harry Majors said: "Other first-ascent-party names on Ragged Ridge that had been similarly dismissed include: Mt. Holyoke (Katsuk Peak), Gendarmes Peak (Kimtah Peak), and Ragged End (Cosho Peak). Dr. John Roper and the Fireys were the pioneer climbers on Ragged Ridge. If anyone had a right to name these particular peaks, it was they." I actually agree with a Canuck here!!--sort of. I agree that Holyoke is less inspiring than Katsuk. How many mountains out there are named after some climber's East Coast Ivy League alma mater? This is a conceit that has never really sat well with me. I tend toward, "Screw you and your holyoker than thou East Coast persnickety college!" There is a Mt. Harvard, et al. in at least three western states that I know (including this state). The city of Holyoke is farther away from Ragged Ridge than the Chinook tribe is. So, the argument for proximity is a little less valid in this regard. "Holyoke" no more captures the quiddity of that peak than "Katsuk", probably even less so. So who's naming was uninspired is a matter of perception. All that said, I do still agree that the first ascensionists should be the ones honored with the naming of the peak they've just climbed. If they're trying to name something they haven't climbed that is nearby, then I don't think they should have the naming honor. It is up to the Washington Board to decide whether a peak should be renamed. The argument for renaming would have to be very persuasive, in my opinion. Just because I don't like the name of something, it doesn't mean it should be renamed. I just have to accept it and move on. I'm very conservative in this regard. Political Correctness be gone! Further, I see nothing wrong with naming a peak based on its characteristics--be it evil or heavenly. I'm sure religious zealots would prefer nicer names than Devil's Thumb and Mt. Terror, but I bet most climbers actually prefer names such as these. There is a Heavens Peak in Glacier National Park. There is a He Devil Mountain and a She Devil Mountain in Idaho. To me, these latter two have more compelling names. If I had to make a choice between going to Heavens Peak (actually, it is a nice looking peak in the park, see here) or The He Devil Moutains not knowing what either look like, I'd probably choose the latter. I would like to qualify by saying that I think the word "Devil" is overused for toponyms--overused to the point of being trite. I propose Nefarious Thumb or Pernicious Thumb or Eldritch Thumb or, best of all, Deleterious Thumb.

Yeah, I kind of agree with you regarding summitpost's ratings and point system thing. However, I've tried to decipher whether these have some inherent value that is hard to put in plain terms. That is to say, does it compel people to use the site more so than if it was just a mountain info and pictures depository? For some, probably. For others, such as myself, not really. The only thing the point system does is kind of give you a sense of where you stand amongst others on the website in terms of volume contributed. It's kind of like the post # that increments every time we make a post on cc.com. That really has no value either. So, it's the same thing really. Now that sp.com no longer has a registration requirement to view mountain pages and pictures, I will use it unabashedly for picture link purposes (as I did in my previous post). I use summitpost to create mountain pages and deposit pictures. I occassionally write TRs and create mountain routes. I also respond/comment on pictures. There are some good people over there. It's just a different world from this world. All the rest of their stuff doesn't mean much to me. I'd rather not sign their summit registers, for example. And I never use their bulletin board. I will be adding a Mt. Triumph page over there in the next day or two.

Harry: I believe Cavey's Flattop and Turtlehead proposals are for peaks they climbed near (I don't think they climbed on them) in the Monarch Range of Canada. In this respect, it doesn't matter that there are other peaks in Washington with names similar to those. Also, it is no longer of WSB of Geographic Names or USGS jurisdiction. Here is the link to the thread that can be found in the B.C. forum: Monarch Range Attached is a photo of "Chokwich Peak" from the northwest. I would agree that Flattop would be a better name. The peak definitely is flat on the top. When I get the picture developed, I'll post the view of it from Twin Peaks, where it has an even greater appearance of flatness. There is a Chokwich Falls, but it is across the South Fork Sauk River Valley from the peak. I agree with you about Beckey's CAG guides. In the last year or so I've discovered maybe about a dozen errors of various sorts. Even his description (in the 2nd Edition of Green CAG) of the approach to Twin Peaks is perplexing. He mentions that the climber should "follow the timbered ridge E up the left side of the terminal fork" from the Perry Creek Basin. Well, there is no ridge going that way. You can see this is the case on a topographic map. Oh well. At least no obvious gully is mentioned.

Charlie, you might take a look here: Seattle Circle. Might be expensive, but maybe not. The Seattle Circle House is located in North Seattle (Phinney Ridge area). I once went to a small concert performance there. It literally is a house. The Seattle Circle is a descendant of Guitar Craft, which was the brainchild of Robert Fripp, he of King Crimson fame. The band called The California Guitar Trio has its roots in Guitar Craft and gives concerts for Seattle Circle. This was the band I saw at the Seattle Circle House. That's about all I know.

Some pictures from that day: Upper Perry Creek Perry Creek Headwall Stillaguamish Peak Sperry & Vesper Mt. Dickerman Mt. Forgotten & CBS More may be posted next week as soon as I get the next film roll used up and developed.

For Chrissakes boys! It's Larrabee on the left, Slesse on the right! How many times do I have to tell you?

I have no idea, and I tire of playing, and I tire of all these personal attacks. Goodnight.

Good golly, what a pile of shit! There is a lot of rock like that in the Monte Cristo Group. Since you were in that area this weekend, it might be a picture of some crag over thattaway. I have only climbed Del Campo in the Gothic Basin area, so am unfamiliar with the details of other peaks there.

No, it wouldn't be a personal attack unless I typed it in red. What is that peak then? It has the looks of a few things but I know it's not one of those things.

Regarding the previoius image I annotated for you: I AM COMPLETELY CORRECT. DO NOT EVER SECOND GUESS ME. DO IT AND DIE! (In the case of Larrabee, the proof is in the outline, of which I've seen enough times to know it when I see it. The outline clearly shows the Pleiades on the right of Larrabee. When you zoom in, the distance between peaks appears to widen. True enough, Larrabee and Slesse are not far from each other but would appear as such when you zoom in that direction from a distant peak. Regarding the new image, I'm guessing that is Monte Cristo Peak (on the Glacier Basin side). This would make the ridge in the foreground part of Silver Tip Peak. I'm not really sure though. When I'm not sure, I'll admit it. When I am sure, I won't say as much.

Annotating your white boxes from left to right: Larrabee, Slesse, and Klawatti (foreground peak). Tepeh Towers extend left from Klawatti. Klawatti Glacier is on the right; Inspiration Glacier on the left. The view is roughly northwestward (from Forbidden Peak, East Ridge, I presume). THIS IS THE RIGHT ANSWER. DO NOT PROCEED FURTHER WITH GUESSES.

Northern Pickets. With Jack Mountain on the horizon at right and Mt. Triumph (or possibly Despair) at the right edge. Where's that taken from? Shuksan, I think. Second picture is of Mt. Blum.

Is it in Washington? If not, I probably don't know. If it is, I'll have to look at it a little longer.

Not sure, but for some reason I want to say either Metier or Joffre.

And here's one of the other dam up thattaway. Historical note: the checkerboard pattern was for a dam heightening project that never came to pass. It would have raised the Ross Lake level by something like 100 feet, thus inundating a lot more of Canada just over the border (the lake currently extends a mile or two into Canada).

Looking down at the valve house (pressure relief valves) of Diablo Dam. Wooo wooo wooo wooo ! My 1000th post! Wooo wooo wooo wooo !

Yeah, it's not Scott or Hubbard. Just read up on my green Fred. Didn't know Gothic and Castle were so slabby.

Scott Peak in the foreground? Red Mountain [sultan] the pointy peak beyond. Mt. Stickney on the horizon.