Walter_Burt

Winter, Good points about the value of local activism (the positive spin on NIMBYism!) and the externalization of costs by Cogentrix. I think that it is clear from history that most businesses will externalize as much of their costs as possible, including by browbeating the regulators and public through political influence, threats of economic disaster, etc. We wouldn't have half the environmental problems we have now if this weren't true. The disconnect and distance between communities where facilities are located and the business decision-makers do nothing but exacerbate the situation. As far as local activism goes: the important questions about costs and benefits (and I'm not talking about just $) often wouldn't be answered without the community getting involved. I think there is an important distinction to be made between NIMBYism and community activism: NIMBYism implies (at least to me) opposition without necessarily enquiring about or considering the costs and benefits, whereas activism means asking the tough questions and forcing a straight dialogue, based on facts. Here is where the common sense test comes in - if the community doesn't get straight answers, or if the project doesn't make sense based on the facts and preferences of the community, then the community has every right to tell them to take a hike. Unfortunately, in my experience many of the folks who are first to take the NIMBY stance are the folks with the most money and are conspicuous consumers of resources; however, they are the first to foist the im pacts of their consumption off on the people less able to fight. I'm not implying that this is true of all people with money, but there does seem to be a correlation. I'd like to see everyone along the Hwy 97 strip from Madras to Sun River cut their lighting by a third and then tell the plant to go to hell. I don't think there is enough water for a plant of that size. But, I don't think all of the questions about need, etc. have been answered yet either.

Jon makes some excellent points about the NIMBY syndrome and some of the real issues. I'm a little tired of watching the debate on matters like this being co-opted by extremes. The losers generally are the public and the credibility of all. The winners are attorneys and out-of-town interests. We all use power; we should take responsibility for what we use and pay for the impacts from the use. The decision whether or not to fight the plant should be based on the actual need for the plant relative to the external costs to be borne by the public (air quality, water quality, visual aesthetics, water availability...). You can trust Cogentrix to track internal costs very closely. If it isn't "economic," they won't build it. The fact that they are sinking a lot of money in the permitting at this point suggests that it is economic at current prices, or perhaps they have a crystal ball. By the way, don't confuse the term "economic" with "needed," especially when looked at on a local or even regional scale. A valid question is "what benefit does this plant bring to the immediate area and the region?" Is it needed for base or peak power demands in Central Oregon, or is the power going to California, Seattle, Portland, points east...? The folks in Central Oregon are going to be paying the bulk of the external costs, so they do have a right to ask for and receive a straight answer, and fight the project for that matter. That said, and assuming that there is a need/demand in the area, are you willing to make sacrifices in your lifestyle to stop the project? This question, of course, assumes that the power market is supply/demand-based (preferably local or regional demand), and hasn't been "cooked" by an Enron. Are you willing to put up with fewer power-sucking gadgets at home? A smaller stereo? No AC in the summer? Compact flourescent bulbs? Fewer Xmas lights in the winter...? I'm on the side of conservation myself inspite of Mr. Cheney's statement last year after convening with Ken Lay to establish energy policy that conservation is ineffective. But that's my bias. The power track record in the Pacific NW has been to build power generation facilities, lure industry and encourage use based on cheap power availability, then build another facility to keep ahead of the demand. The old "build it and they will come." However, the Pacific NW has gone from an energy-rich region with cheap power for all to energy parity, and we are just starting to factor some of the tradeoffs into the equation like fish, water quality, etc. With the interdependence of the power grid and the energy "trading" from deregulation, it's a little difficult to ascertain true need. Stepping down a little from my soap box ... I think that the strongest argument against the proposed plant from an impact standpoint is water availability. The Deschutes Basin is closed to most appropriation, particularly groundwater. Deep groundwater resources in volcanic terranes are limited by definition. They might be able to find a 5,500 gpm groundwater resource that is sustainable for the design life of the plant. However, the full impact of that kind of withdrawal may not be known for quite a while and it likely will not be appreciably recharged in our lifetime; in other words, they'll be "mining" the resource. If the aquifer shows significant recharge, it will be because it's in direct connection with surface water, which means they'll be impacting flow in the Crooked River (which already has serious water quality problems). The bottom line is that 5,500 gpm is a lot of water, especially on a constant use basis. It's enough for a community of 40,000 or more. Let's assume the water is available (I'm dubious). Appropriation of 5,500 gpm for plant use either through new water rights or purchase of existing rights will make 5,500 gpm unavailable for other future uses whether they be agriculture, municipal (Redmond, Bend, Madras...), recreational (state park, new resort...), etc. That's another choice to put in the equation. By the way, when power costs headed up a couple of years ago, an "X" was marked on the map at every location in the western U.S. where a gas pipeline is remotely near a high voltage transmission line. Every "X" became an immediate candidate for power plant development, irrespective of local demand/needs. A number of the projects recently have been cancelled because of economics, or because Enron was involved. Some of them haven't, including Cogentrix and a site in Longview, WA, among others. You can count on the power companies to come back to these sites if power costs head up again. Water availability tends to be the principal fatal flaw to development of these facilities. If you are going to fight the Cogentrix plant or any other power plant, do it based on the facts including a weighing of the costs and needs, and be prepared to put your money where your mouth is.

I always base my choice of routes on whether or not it's snowing, how low the snow level is, and how early it is. The best solution for Timberline is go up via Hwy 26 prior to 8:00 am and either leave prior to 2:30 or after 7:00 pm. Going to Timberline and even Meadows prior to say 8:00 am and returning prior to 3:00 pm (you're screwed anyway you look at it during peak times): I-84 to Wood Village Exit I(16) is the fastest (though ugly) way. You can also take the Troutdale exit on I84 East (with all the truck stops), follow frontage road to east end, take right and head up the hill - it dumps you out on Hwy 26 a mile or so east of Uhaul - good way to get back to 84 if the traffic stacks up going into Gresham. To points east and north of Timberline on Hwy 35 during peak travel times (Meadows, etc.): Go through Hood River - especially after 3:00 or so on a Sunday as the Bend weekend traffic joins the mess at Gov't Camp. It's faster going to Meadows via Hwy 26 if the traffic is not to bad, but in the afternoon or late morning, or when snowing - Hood River is the way to go. There is very little traffic to and from H.R. The Hood River way avoids the zoo out of ZigZag when it's snowing and everyone is chaining up. Good beer and coffee stops too.

Allison, To my recollection both routes are neither, though the Hook Cr route could be ugly if wet as I remember some v. steep heather slopes and lots of big rocks. Not much in the brush-wacking or small, slippery, slidy scree department though. Actually, the run up from Colchuck via the logging road becomes relatively clear sailing after a couple of thousand feet of gain. Just lots of sidehilling and scrambling.

Allison, My climbing partner and I went up through the Lost World Plateau via the old logging road from Colchuck TR to climb Prussik South Face in the fall. It's a neat place, but not a recommended route if you are on a mission with a timeline and have a load - it was a grunt. I also did a traverse over Asgard over Prussik Pass to the Edward Plateau and out Hook Cr with a v. light day pack. That was possibly the worst descent I've been "privileged" to participate in and we were traveling light - steep wooded game trails, several thousand feet of steep boulder talus-hopping and lots of cliffs to navigate around. I can't think that it would be much fun going up. Both the Edward and Lost World Plateaus are amazing places though and well worth the effort. Have fun

It's pretty long as you start from Mt Bachelor unless you scam a snowmobile ride from the folks who own the Elk Lake Resort. Count on 3 days prior to opening of the Cascade Lakes Road - a weekend if the road is open. It'll take a day into the Green Lakes, a day up and back and a day out if the road isn't opened. Have fun W

The ease of the Sunshine route depends on how early you go. Six years ago it was a cruise. It's gotten more and more difficult since 1996 when the glaciers on Hood (and elsewhere) have become more broken up. I ski Snow Dome every June and July. I "accidentally" found a crevasse on the Dome last early July - so go earlier than later. Two tools may be desirable later than June as the 'shrund above the "dome" and Coe Gl. can get ugly in July and August. Cross on the Elliot on the Timberline Trail and head up the west side of the Elliot on the moraine - should be good this year with the current snowpack. Descending via the route may be okay prior to early June (depending on precip this year); however, you may need to rappel a shrund on the descent, so you might want to leave the south side traverse option open. Good Luck. It's a nice route.

I have a friend out of PDX that is headed up to Canada to ski with a mutual friend from Golden next week at the Ptarmagin hut. Maybe a place one-removed, but might work. Let me know if you want to try it - he'll be headed north through the tri-shitties. W

"Feeding the Rat" by Alvarez about Mo Anthoine (sp) "No Picnic on Mt Kenya" about an Italian prisoner of war who manufactured his gear and organized an escape from the POW camp to climb Mt Kenya because he was essentially bored. The climbers returned to the camp after the climb The "Long Walk" about a Polish POW escaping the Siberian Gulag in mid-winter during WWII and walking all the way to India. Though not really a climbing book, it's a good reminder that things can always be worse, so quit whining.

I lead with my mouth in the last blurb so here's a correction - by "volcanic" the USGS folks probably mean quakes associated with magma movement. I was thinking in terms of any quake associated with a volcano whether it be due to magma movement or fault slippage.

"volcanic" quakes tend to be shallower, and are more localized and generally of much lower magnitude because they aren't due to big stress releases from intra or intercrustal movements like last years quake in Puget Sound. Quakes associated with magma movement tend to come in swarms and have a harmonic signature. You can really see this in some of the seismograms from just prior to the St Helens eruption(s).

Damn, that was good! You forgot to add I lost my prized piolet I picked up in Namche in Nepal after one too many butt plants on the descent from Muir! A group I ski in Canada with has an award for things like this - it's called the Dildus and consists of a dildo attached as the handle to the bottom foot of a ski pole. Definitely dildus material.

TG, Let me know what you find out about leather climbing boots as I'm in the market now and have duck feet (9 1/2 EE to EEE). I use Scarpa Invernos for plastic boots and they've treated me very well, though my observation of Scarpas in general (T2s and rock shoes) is that they are cut a little narrow (I haven't looked at them for a few years though, so they may have started designing for the American foot). I took my Invernos to an alpine ski shop and had them heat-stretched out a little on the sides before I went to Denali just to make sure I came back with all digits. It worked. Good Luck, W

My experience is pre-Sept 11, but I've always had the best luck going through the Lynden crossing which sets you up for avoiding the worst of the traffic in Vancouver if you are headed to Squamish and it's a relatively straight shot into MEC from the east. MEC would be my first stop. Great place to buy pins, ropes and ski stuff. Their outerwear is a great value too. There are several other shops right across the street from MEC. Can't speak for any other places though.

Ben, Avalanche hazard on the South Side route is minimal provided you stay on-route. The south side of the mountain tends to get wind-blasted. All of the snow ends up on east and northeast aspects (e.g. White River Canyon). The primary area of concern is the east facing slope approaching the Hogback below Crater Rock (above the head of the White River Gl.). Once on the Hogback, you are relatively "sheltered" though slab does form on both sides of the Hogback, depending on the wind. The Pearly Gates are a wind tunnel and so are rarely a problem. The West Crater Rim, west of the standard route, can get loaded and should be avoided after a big snowfall. It usually cuts loose with a couple of big ones every year - a group of Mazamas were avalanched there a few springs ago. That's another story belonging in the thread on the Mountaineers. Winter is a great time to climb the south side of Hood (or any other side for that matter)as there are fewer people, more interesting conditions and a great ski to the bottom. That said, weather on Hood is a crapshoot in the winter. Given that the firehose (jetstream) is headed our way again, you will likely be climbing in a full-on white out above 7,500 feet with 30 to 50 mph winds unless you get lucky. In case those conditions don't turn you off, good navigation skills are critical or you will end up in White River Canyon (bad), or Zig-Zag Canyon (also bad). White River Canyon tends to develop some whopper cornices in a storm, and the glacier is crevassed. Two guys were just rescued this morning from near White River Canyon after spending the night - they got lost in a whiteout yesterday and called via cell phone (I won't go into my thoughts on that). Fortunately, they were prepared to spend the night. But they probably shouldn't have gotten lost as it's a relatively simple navigation problem. That said, the mountain is often climbed in really crappy weather. But it's not fun or particularly satisfying. You need a compass, map and the knowledge how to use them in full-on crappy conditions. You also have to really want to bag a summit regardless of aesthetic or comfort considerations.

Nice photo Imorris. A friend and I decided not to ski up that way on that day because of all the new snow and the high freezing level forecast for the day. I calculated that we would have been up there just in time to participate in the "rescue" if we hadn't bailed at the last minute and gone on a bike ride. Let's hear it for the gut-feeling. I probably shouldn't have put "minimal" in my first sentence because the sides of the Hogback do go on occasion - I've seen some small slides on the west side and unstable conditions on the east side of it. Ben, Later Saturday or early Sunday are the best bet for a break, but don't count on it. It'll probably be blowing pretty hard too as it'll be the tail end of the first big system. Good luck if you go. Take goggles.

Carbon River Entrance and take a mountain bike for the approach. Plan on a long hoof after the descent if you come down the Emmons or Winthrop. Watch out for snow instability, esp. if you do the variation that traverses on the east side of the ridge above Thumb Rk. Friends have bivvied in the schrund at around 13,500' on their winter ascent.

Sounds familiar. I've been going to PRG on and off since 1991 - mostly for convenience since I'm in SE too. I've never cared for the "Gods Gift to Climbing" attitude of the management, though the attitude of MOST of the people behind the desk has improved in the last couple of years compared to the mid-90s. Crowding and the fact that a lot of the folks at PRG have always had a "tude" has driven me and my climbing buddies out of there except when desperate. That and the danger of "chalkosis" from the piss-poor ventilation and plethora of euro-chalker posers. As far as the belay certification/training crap goes... sounds like the insurance companies are taking their toll, in addition to maybe PRG looking for more instructing $. Speaking of: I wouldn't trust most their instructors in the mid-90s to train anyone to belay - I saw too many folks nearly deck inside and at the local crags while belayed by some of those guys - some slack to keep things dynamic is one thing, but lots of slack when the leader is at the first bolt coupled with inattention seemed to be common. Probably different now though. The management(Robert)at Stoneworks is great, as is the bouldering. Even the disgustingly good juniors there tend to be grounded. Club Sports has nice facilities, but is ridiculously expensive, to far out of the way for anyone in town and can be a zoo also. There have been a number of rumors going around about another gym coming town. Usually takes a couple of years for the rumors to gel into reality around here though. Grin and bear it.

The access to the south side is definitely not plowed in the winter. A snowmobile or a really long slog is required. Skis are recommended if you slog. Most of the vertical gain on the approach to treeline is in the last 3 or so miles before Cold Springs. The main reason the approach drive doesn't melt out until late is that it's on heavily forested steep slope. The South side is relatively safe r.e. avalanche danger as it is low angle and tends to get blasted by the winds coming in from the southwest, though the SE Couloirs can get loaded by the easterlies when there is a high east of the mtns. Good luck and have fun.

Hey guys, taking a keg across the border is kind of tricky and may require a sympathetic border guard. We took a keg of Bridgeport IPA up to Valhalla Lodge last winter for a week of face shots and beer. We declared it; our pitch to customs was that we were dividing the volume between 6 of us. A surly guard took the hard line and made us pay duty because (1) a container (said keg) can only be in one persons name (me), which put me over my alcohol limit, and (2) you aren't allowed to bring a keg across the border into Canada anyway. All the other guards appeared to want to less us skate on out, but she wouldn't budge much. She did let us across with it since we were so far from Portland, had a big deposit on the keg and had a helicopter to catch. So, the choices are to (1) don't declare it and hope they don't search you, (2) bring it in bottles, (3) strap it behind the cab of a truck, stick a hose and a gas regulator on it and tell them you're driving a propane-powered truck. Play greenie. That said, the beer was worth the hassle and the hut custodians were green with envy when we tapped the keg the first sunny afternoon after a 5,000+' day. Good Luck

Freeheeling predates the fixed heel by at least a millenium. The Norwegians were definitely freeheeling on monster boards when they spirited their baby king away from the invading hordes some 1,000 years or more ago. The Birkebeiner XC ski race commemorates that incident. Folks freeheeled almost exclusively up till the early 20th century. My father still has a pair of wood 225s dating from the late 1930s with cable bindings that he can clip down for the downhill.

Jon, Driving over Santiam Pass and through Sisters is the longer way. It's particularly long time-wise if the snow levels are real low (<1,500'). Warning to all: avoid Gov't Camp on Hwy 26 west-bound at 4:30 p.m on a Sunday or a long weekend during ski season, especially if it snows on the pass. You can spend several hours sitting in traffic going over Gov't Camp. A good option, though somewhat longer distance-wise,is to take Hwy 35 north on the east side of Gov't camp and drive to Hood River if you are there during a high traffic time on Hwy 26. Catch a pint in Parkdale at the brewpub or down at Full Sail in Hood River and let things settle down. The Mt Hood Brewery at Gov't Camp also is a good refuge. The way to get back to I-205 from Hwy 26 west is to stay in the right lane and look for signs for I-84 just when you pull into Gresham and into the mess of strip malls - I think it's the third traffic light when you pull into town. You pass a Safeway and a bunch of other stores - take a right to I-84 where the sign indicates and retrace the path coming from I-84 when headed toward Smith. that'll take you to I-84 - Take I-84 to I-205 (get in the lane one over from the left side before you reach the I-205 interchange -it'll put you on I-205 North). Once out of the Seattle area, I contend that if you avoid the ski rush times (7:30 to 10:00 AM eastbound and 4:30 - 6:30 PM westbound weekends) I-205 - Hwy 26 is the fastest. The first part of the sentence is the key, and I don't pretend to know the best way out of Seattle. FYI: I still drive to Eburg a lot and Hwy 97 can be interesting from Toppenish to the Columbia River if snow levels are relatively low. Fog on Hwy 97 from the C.R. almost to Madras can be really bad when there is an inversion - I averaged about 30 mph on that stretch once.

hey, A hint from a traffic allergic Portlander: don't take 205 to Powell (Hwy 26). It's much faster to take I205 south to I84 East and exit at Wood Village (I think exit 16) - the sign says Mt Hood. Take a right at the light off the off-ramp and follow the road 4 or 5 mile to Hwy 26 and then take a left. There are signs for the turn onto 26. Much faster as it avoids all of the lights on Hwy 26. Another hint - watch out for cops on 26 near Welches and Wemme (the towns before the climb up to Government Camp) - there have been a lot of accidents along that corridor and the cops hit that stretch hard, especially in the winter and spring. Also watch for cops around Warm Springs. You can usually fly though. I'm originally from Eburg and it's definitely faster to go I-5, I-205, Hwy 26, etc. to Smith than I-90 to Hwy 97 (particularly if there is snow on the roads). Have fun

FYI: The photo was taken from the north with the Sandy Gl. headwall just out of the picture to the left (east). Most of the climbing on the route that isn't on the crest is on the south side below the gendarme. By the way, the route is in terrible shape in that photo - it'd would be a choss pile. The rock should be well caked with snow and rime.

Correction: The USGS is sampling gas, not water