Mike_Gauthier

cayuse pass should also open this monday. chinook pass and the white river road usually open on the friday before memorial day weekend. stevens canyon will probably open that weekend too, but no word yet... i agree, "mount rainier unchained". i like that! ; )

here's some clarification. i looked into this question to see what the deal was (b/c i must admit that this rule is new and i wasn't quite aware of the "whys" and "hows" behind it.) anyway, the new reg was put in place b/c we’ve had a problem the last few years with climbers "hoarding" reservations for the high camps, especially along the popular routes of muir and schurman. in the past, $20 allowed you lock up a few weekends (for some it was NUMEROUS weekends) during the best part of the summer. the problem was, those parties didn’t really intend to climb all of those weekends. instead, those parties would only show for the weekend that was most convenient (weather was usually a factor). well, this sounds smart, right? the problem, however, was that those parties locked up a LOT of space up at the popular high camps, thus preventing other climbers from being able to get permits. Keep in mind that it’s a VERY rare day that climbers actually cancel their unused permits in advance (or at all). so, to protect the interests of other climbers, the nps implemented a few changes. 1. the nps now charges in advance for the climbing permit (i.e. you have to pay the $15 per person climbing fee when you reserve your permit) and 2. we limit the number of days you can reserve a permit on the most popular routes. again, this was done to prevent "permit hoarding." if you want, you CAN camp up to 13 nights on the muir route (not something i would recommend)! but to do this, you must do this in person, at the ranger station, before your trip. otherwise, people would again be able to lock up numerous weekends with one permit (in theory, you could reserve 14 days, and lock up 2 weekends). why 4 nights? we chose 4 nights b/c 99.9% of the climbers normally stay 4 nights or less (the average is something just over 1 night.) so, you CAN stay longer on the muir route. b/c it's rather unusual that someone stays more than 4 nights on the mountain, it would be highly unlikely that all of the spaces will be taken when you arrive to do this. and if the spots are taken, then they're going to be taken by people just like you, who got here before you... but jeez, i'd be rather surprised if this happened. more than likely, there will be space at the high camps for your extended trip. just ask the ranger to add the extra days on your permit. i apologize for the confusion, your concern is noted. i hope you have a great trip, send me a PM if you have more specific questions. best regards mike

the word on the street (or maybe i should say "the word in the woods") is that the road to paradise will open 24/7 this monday. weather depending.?! bring on summer! there's still snow on the ground in longmire (2700 feet), it even dusted here last night...

alpine t and TG, i see your point, i misunderstood the question. (one of the problems of communicating over the internet...) fyi for everyone... the superintendent doesn't actually approve the solo permits... he designates that responsibility to people like steve winslow and me. as you can imagine, he's a bit too busy to pour over every solo climb request. for an experienced mountain person, getting a solo climbing permit isn't difficult. reasonable requests almost always get approved. have a great trip on the mountain.

here's a few thoughts on the wonderland. 1. it's an EXTREMELY popular trail... backpacker magazine (and other magazines) seems to feature the trail regularly. therefore, get your permit reservation now! 2. if you'd like to save time and hit the best spots, i recommend that you forget the "southern" section of the trail. that section travels from longmire to maple creek, via paradise and stevens canyon. to me, it's the least scenic and most populated section of the trail. 3. place (send) food caches at mowich lake and sunrise. 4. here are some of my favorite places in which to stay. klapatchee park, golden lakes, mystic lake, sunrise walk in camp, and indian bar. regarding the olympics... since there are a myriad of great trails to hike and an infinite number of possible combos, i'll simply list a few places that i've visited and revisited... these spots are all winners!! the enchanted valley, lost pass, grand pass, cameron pass, grand and moose lakes, hart, lacross and marmot lake's (near oneil pass), the low divide and the skyline trail, deer park, grand ridge, cedar lake (ie, the ne section of the park) first divide and home sweet home, and my personal favorite, slightly obscured, destined to never be popular area, sundown pass and sundown lake. there are many, many more great areas in the olympics, but if you can link a hike with a few of these destinations, you'll be quite pleased. good luck mike

Reported Route Conditions as of April 26, 2002: NPS Climbing Rangers were able to conduct helicopter training flights and mountain reconnaissance this week. The observations of independent climbers and climbing rangers provide further information about specific routes out of Camp Muir. If no report is listed, then we have no information to share. General · Overall, the upper mountain climbing conditions on Rainier appear excellent from aerial observation. Though there is a significant amount of snow pack (above average) between 3,000 and 8,000 feet, the upper mountain appears to have a more normal snowpack this year. High camps such as Camp Schurman and Camp Muir are melting out rapidly; huts and outhouses are easily accessible. · Though we have no reported ascents of Ptarmigan Ridge, Liberty Ridge, Emmons/Winthrop Glacier, Kautz Glacier, Fuhrer Finger, Success Cleaver, and Tahoma Glacier, the routes appear (from the air) to be in great shape. Due to the heavy snowfall this winter, crevasse fields and icefalls on the main climbing glaciers (Carbon, Inter, Emmons, Tahoma, Kautz, Nisqually, and Ingraham) appear easy to navigate. The steeper sections of routes like Liberty Ridge, Sunset Ridge, Ptarmigan Ridge and Kautz Glacier, also look great (for the alpinist that likes some ice). It appears as though the mountain has been the subject of intense wind this spring and winter. Ice is visible on the steeper sections of Mowich Face, Sunset Ridge and the Kautz Glacier ice chute. On Liberty Ridge, the Black Pyramid and exit chute out of Thumb Rock high camp also appear quite icy. · We were able to touch down on a few locations and elevations around the mountain. At all locations, we found an intensely stable/icy snow surface. If the wind hasn’t blown the loose snow away, solar radiation from the previous week of great weather has melted and refrozen the surface daily. These conditions are subject to change with the weather. Disappointment Cleaver (D.C) · No one has summited via the DC this winter or spring; therefore, no route reports are available. It should be noted, however, that most climbing teams ascend the Ingraham Glacier Direct during the winter and spring. This variation of the DC route is generally more direct an attractive to climbers during the early season. Ingraham Glacier Direct · There have been a few ascents of the Ingraham Glacier this winter/spring. Teams reported good (i.e. straightforward) climbing conditions. One team did experience a few minor crevasse falls on the Ingraham Glacier so be careful. Ensure that your team is roped up and communicating well to avoid these hazards. Gibraltar Ledges · There have been numerous ascents of the Gibraltar Ledges route this winter/spring. Those parties have reported excellent climbing conditions. From Camp Muir to 11,600 ft (the base of Gib Ledges), recent teams have found hard styrofoam and packed snow. The snow conditions on the Cowlitz Cleaver and Cowlitz Glacier are quite firm, especially along the ridge from Camp Muir to the Beehive. It should be noted, however, that the snow on the Gib Ledges is sometimes sugary and unconsolidated despite cold temperatures. Watch your footing, this section of the route is airy. The Gib Chute that exists the Gib Ledges is firm and stable and makes for excellent cramponing on styrofoam. From the top of Gib Chute (Camp Comfort) to the summit, the route finding and crevasse navigation is also straightforward. Again, firm snow (Strasturgi wind sculpted hard packed snow) and few crevasse problems were reported.

yup, you can get a permit for the summit, few people do however. here's some cheap advice. spend 2 nights on top. the reason i suggest this is that you're usually too tired from the climb and other mountaineering chores to do too much exploring the day you arrive. if you spend the entire next day on top, it allows for plenty of lounging AND summit cave exploration... additionally, you could visit liberty cap and point success, which really aren’t “short walks”... i also recommend camping in the crater. it offers MUCH MORE protection than camping on the "col" between the summit and liberty cap. personally, i have enjoyed watching many incredible sunsets from the summit. it's pretty amazing to see the entire puget sound light up at dusk as the sun slips behind the olympic mountains. 2 years ago, i watched wild fires burn across parts of eastern washington... once, we watched 4th of july fire-work shows across the puget sound; another time, we watched 1,000’s of lightning strikes over easten washington… it's a pretty nice view up there...

tg the ff route is probably in great shape right now... the route has better snow cover in the early season (i.e april, may, june). this makes the climb more straight forward. by late july or august, it starts to get icier and more melted out. i believe that the route lasts a bit longer than mid may, but savaiusini is a big time skier and i wonder if he's considering the ski conditions too? those can fall out of favor earlier some years (though probably not this year)... also consider that the rock fall hazard increases as the summer progresses. i recommend wearing a helmet. savaiusini is right about getting a solo permit. mail your request to the NPS at: Mount Rainier National Park, Tahoma Woods, Star Route, Ashford, WA 98304, Attention Solo Climbing Permit. you can also call the paradise old station at 360 569 2211 ext 2314 and leave a message. include your address (or fax number if you want to speed things up) we'll send you a form to fill out and return. if you can call back in may when the ranger station opens on the weekends, someone will probably be able to give you more accurate route conditions.

that's cool erik. i know what you're looking for. i supppose that we'll see you tonight in tacoma? as a reminder, the first public meeting is tonight, 6:30 at the washington state history museum, in downtown tacoma. see you there.mike

re: contracts. reminder, these meetings are public "SCOOPING" meetings. there are no "contracts" written yet for future business opportunities (that i know of). basically, the superintendent wants to hear what you have to say. if you want to see the PREVIOUS contracts, i.e., RMI's contract and it’s one year extension that it’s operating under now, you can get those through a FOIA request. this has been done by others before. skip card (Tacoma News Tribune reporter) did a very interesting story in 1999 on the business of guiding on rainier. he got all of the documents, including RMI'S reported financial statements through FOIA. It should be noted that that business statement only included business transactions conducted through rainier park. that doesn't include whittaker’s bunkhouse, the rainier shuttle (a separate concession/business permit) the summit haus and their other associated businesses operated by the whittakers. i really, really don't think the government is trying to hide anything here. if you folks, including me, have been missing anything, what you've been missing are the conversations during of past meetings that lead to the current situation. show up at one of these meetings and ask the superintendent some questions. he'll answer what he can, or have someone like me help you out. share your ideas and concerns. no magic, no national security, just a public comment period on commercial business...

hey everyone i'm gathering some stats about guiding on rainier, but before i post, is there anything in particular you folks want to know? any questions i should think about? thanks mike

the tacoma news tribune printed this today. there are a few factual errors, but for the most part, its on the mark. Mount Rainier park officials seek public input, suggestions Recreation: 3 sessions set for talks about services March 07, 2002 Skip Card; The News Tribune Have you ever wished you could slog up Mount Rainier's most popular summit route without sharing the path with two dozen climbers who paid to be guided up the peak? Do you have a suggestion to improve the beds, food or service at Paradise Inn? Were you unhappy with the souvenir you bought from a park gift shop or the firewood you bought at Cougar Rock Campground? If so, Mount Rainier National Park officials want to hear from you. Park officials have scheduled three sessions this month, in Tacoma, Seattle and Ashford, to hear comments on business operations at Mount Rainier. Comments will help officials craft the Commercial Services Plan, a guide to shaping future contracts and concessions in the park The purpose of the sessions is for Mount Rainier visitors "to tell us what they would like to see changed, if anything," Mount Rainier superintendent Jon Jarvis said. Like most national parks, Mount Rainier lets private companies take over chores such as managing hotels, operating restaurants and leading guided climbs. Even selling firewood or renting skis requires a park-issued business permit, most of which grant some exclusive rights. Mount Rainier's largest contract is held by Guest Services Inc., which operates the park's inns, restaurants and gift shops. GSI's 25-year contract with the park expires in 2012. What Jarvis called the most complicated contract is held by Rainier Mountaineering Inc. The current contact gives RMI exclusive rights to lead paying clients virtually anywhere on the mountain, including the most popular climbing route up Rainier's Disappointment Cleaver. The core of RMI's business is its two-day summit climb, which - when combined with a one-day training session - costs $728 per person. RMI regularly leads up to 24 clients a day up the mountain in summer. RMI has been Mount Rainier's primary guide service since 1968. Its contract with the park ran out last year, but it was given a one-year extension that expires in December. RMI's policies have evolved somewhat as the job of overseeing operations has shifted from company founder Lou Whittaker to his oldest son, Peter. RMI now splits its clients into two groups of 12, in part so non-guided climbers don't encounter unwieldy groups at bottlenecks along the climbing route. RMI guides between 3,300 and 3,500 climbers a year, roughly a third of all summit attempts. The company often turns away 1,000 potential customers in July and August because space is limited, but Peter Whittaker said he has no desire to expand the guide service's capacity. "The number of people we're taking up now is plenty," he said. The company expects to gross roughly $2.5 million this year, he said. RMI held a monopoly on all paid climbs until 1997, when park officials granted several other services permission to guide clients to the summit via Emmons Glacier. Four companies now offer four-day climbs up the Emmons, and prices range from $950 to $1,350 per person. Each guided trip is limited to nine clients who travel with three guides between Monday and Thursday. The smaller groups and slower pace make the Emmons climbs so popular that each of the four guide services fields up to 2,000 inquiries for the 36 spaces available each summer. Gordon Janow, director of programs at Alpine Ascents International, one of the four companies guiding on the Emmons, said he would like to see the park allow companies besides RMI more access to more of the mountain on more days, especially for training seminars. And the park might also consider setting aside two or three weekends when guided climbs are prohibited and Mount Rainier is reserved for amateurs, he said. "That would give independent climbers an opportunity to climb or train and not see guide services," Janow said. Routes on such weekends would be less crowded and perhaps closer to the wilderness experience some climbers seek, he said. It's not clear if future changes in Mount Rainier's commercial policies will lead to sweeping changes in guiding, hotel operations or other business activity. Laws governing National Park Service contracts often give existing concession-holders the right to keep their jobs by matching any competitors' best offer. But all new contracts set policies the contract holders must follow and tasks they must perform. In other words, Jarvis said, "We get to determine what the offer is."

debate away folks, but i don't think the westside is up for debate any longer... the park intends to reopen it... and there will be a shuttle. i'm not totally up on the topic, but i think the park service is struggling to find a "shuttle provider" that will make a "reasonable profit..." as you can imagine, a shuttle up the road probably isn't that lucrative... some services in the park, however, make a VERY REASONABLE profit...

though the westside road makes for an interesting debate, its worth noting that the westside road and it's development are NOT up for discussion at these public meetings...

i'll add this b/c some things have changed... you only have to carry chains if you're headed to paradise. you can still get to longmire w/0 them... and if you think about it, that makes perfect sense. do you expect the tourists (from all parts of the world) who stay in the longmire inn to carry tire chains (i.e. buy chains when they get their rental car?) who would think of that at the airport???... this is especially the case considering the park can plow and sand the road... PLUS, there was NO advance warning OR signage outside of the park... but things have changed. ie, their are now public notices and sign have been added outside the park... when visiting rainier in the winter, always carry tire chains...

forget the prostitue analogies guys... they wont serve your concerns very well... and it may alienate others who have similar opinions. this "public scoping meeting" is an opportunity for the NPS management to hear YOUR thoughts! FYI, there isn't a plan in place!! this meeting is designed to take your comments and design a NEW commercial services plan. we could debate the pros and cons of guiding, but more than likely, guiding wont go away... the question is, how do YOU think guiding (or other services, hot cocao, post cards, food service, etc) should happen on rainier? and for that mater, what else should the park be considering (how about some mountain schools or insititutes?). the awarding of concession contracts is VERY complicated. (i gave a thorouguh slide/lecture covering the topic for the AAC this fall at the museum of history and industry.) there a number of laws and regulations that guide the nps on the mater. to say the least, the issue of guiding rainier has been hot in MANY climbers minds. i've probably heard more comments from the public about the guiding on rainier than ANY OTHER SINGLE TOPIC (more than rescues, user fees, regs, etc)! granted, i work mostly with climbers, but I KNOW there are strong opinions/feelings out there. i hope they all show up at the meeting, ask tough questions, and voice there feelings. touché erik, you are VERY RIGHT to state, "take some advice from a non-tactful person....think before we speak!!!" blasting away will do your cause no good. mr. random, your sentiments and questions are great. i look forward to seeing you at the public meeting, i will be attending all of them, but as a representative of the park. everyone’s ears, i.e. the park superintendent's, will WIDE OPEN... i'm glad to see that a few of you have caught on the IMPORTANCE of this public meeting.

FYI to everyone... This just came out today... Release Date: 03/04/2002Contact Name: Jon Jarvis, Superintendent 360-569-2211, x2300 Commercial Services Plan Public Input Sought A Commercial Services Plan is underway at Mount Rainier National Park, Superintendent Jon Jarvis announced today. “Park visitors rely on a variety of services provided by our commercial partners, and we want the public’s help in determining how to manage these services in the national park,” Superintendent Jarvis said. Public scoping meetings will be held in Ashford, Tacoma, Seattle, and Yakima in the coming month. Guided climbs and wilderness trips, lodging and food services, gift shops, firewood sales, and shuttle services are among the potential services to be considered in the plan, expected to be completed this year. Mount Rainier’s recently released General Management Plan provides guidance on the public’s desired visitor experiences, and new laws and policies governing commercial services in national parks will be incorporated. Jarvis says, “Mount Rainier contains exceptional resources and opportunities for the public to enjoy, and we look forward to hearing ideas for making sure that appropriate commercial services are available.” If you are interested in commenting, please join the Superintendent and Park Service staff at one of four public scoping meetings this spring. Public comment can also be submitted directly to the park at: Superintendent Jon Jarvis, Mount Rainier National Park, Commercial Services Plan, Tahoma Woods, Star Route, Ashford, WA 98304-9751. Comments are also accepted via e-mail at: Mora_Commercial_Services@nps.gov. All written public comments must be post marked by March 29, 2002. The public will also have an opportunity to comment on the draft plan during the environmental assessment process later this summer. Public comments will be received in person by park officials at the following locations, dates, and times: Tacoma, WA March 14 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. Washington State History Museum 1911 Pacific Avenue 253-272-3500 Seattle, WA March 19 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. Mountaineers Clubhouse 300 3rd West 206-284-6310 Yakima, WA March 28 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. Double Tree Inn 1507 North 1st St 509-576-4915 Ashford, WA March 25 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. Columbia Crest Elementary School 24503 State Route 706 E 360-569-2567 -NPS- http://www.nps.gov/mora/pphtml/newseventsdetail3329.html

my 2 cents. about half of the teams that climb the gib ledges use ropes. personally, i (and my partners) don't. matt is right, the terrain isn't too technical, but it IS exposed. i prefer not to rope up b/c i've generally felt that a rope would assure my death, as well as my partners, if either of us were to fall or be hit by a rock. running belays are an option (i have done them in the past), but the snow conditions on the ledges can, and usually is, problematic. that snow is rife with rocks and small debris from gib rock above, therefore that snow tends to be shallow, sugary and a bit unconsolidated. yes, there are times when it's quite firm, but that's not always the case, even during cold temperatures... also consider that you'll have "moats" to watch. these moats form between the snow and rock on the ledges itself, matt, did you ever find this to be the case? once you're off the ledges and into the chute, the snow generally firms up nicely. hey david, i have descended the ingraham next to gib rock as you suggest, but that's not always a go. that section can be quite crevassed at times and as you probably noticed, it's pretty steep getting off of gib and onto the ingraham (and did you notice the sulfur smell there?, i think there is a sulfur vent in that area) anyway, going through cadaver gap is a great alternative to normal march from muir to ingraham flats. i sometimes recommend the route to folks who haven't tried it. this is especially the case during the early season (but watch the avalanche conditions) so, try ascending or descending cadaver gap if you get a chance. yes, falling rocks ARE an issue on the ledges. wear your helmet. about descending gib chute. well, that's a roll of the dice. i've definitely done it (and i've even ridden down it) but make sure you can MOVE FAST... it really is a gamble... b/c if that ice cliff goes, you're toast. my advice. if you've done some climbing, are comfortable moving fast in crampons, and have climbed rainier before, don't rope up on the ledges. instead, move as quickly as you can (without stumbling) without belays etc. this way, you'll be able to get back down the ledges before the sun starts to melt the ice that adheres to the gib rock. usually, getting up (or down) the ledges doesn't take that much time. have i said too much? last bit of advice, when visiting rainier in the winter, always carry tire chains...

yes mr clyde, don (vegetablebelay gave his name away) is quite an accomplished climber. i didn't ask if i could print his name with the report, so i left it out as a courtesy. but he probably wouldn't mind anyway... don is rather laid back. one of the cool (and inspirational) things about working on rainier is the fact that i get to meet a lot of unsung and talented climbers like don. they add a great deal of personal charm and character to this big hill. as i'm sure many of us know, there are a lot of "bad ass" climbers out there that the we never hear about.

below is a climbing report that a friend shared with me. he summitted last week. Any of my trail reports past, present and future are for all to share. That having been said I will share with you the fact that on Feb 14 and 15, I made the first solo ascent of 2002 of Mt Rainier. I skied up to Camp Muir with a heavy pack on Thursday the 14th getting their in plenty of time to finish dinner before it got dark and to get plenty of rest. I slept thru my alarm at 2:30 and rose instead at 3:30. Departing at near 4 AM, I got across the Gib Ledges and up the steep upper part of the Gibraltar Nisqually Chute before it got light enough to turn off my headlamp. I made decent time ascending at about 1000 feet per hour. The conditions were a perfect windslab with minimal crevasse danger. I made the crater rim at 8:20 AM and traversed to the highest point by 8:45. In my previous 15 ascents of Rainier never had I had such a wonderful wilderness experience. The 2 climbers I had shared the Muir hut with had decided against a summit attempt so I had Mt Rainier all to myself (at least above 10000 feet). Leaving the crater rim at 9:00 AM I found I could make really good time plunging my heals into the windslab. There was a bit of rockfall from the intense sunlight while coming back across the ledges so I didn't waste any time. I was back at Muir at 10:20 AM feeling a bit fatigued.By noon I was finished packing up and switched to my ski boots for the downhill run. Fifty-five minutes later I was back at the parking lot at Paradise. It wasn't even 1:00 PM and I was a pleasantly mystified that a solo winter trip of Mt Rainier had gone without a hitch.

there was a minor earthquake near the summit today. here is what the USGS guys had to say about it... there notes were very brief... The following is our notification message about the larger of several earthquakes, which took place at Mount Rainier today. There was one at 10:07 PST of Mag=2.5 also plus a number of much smaller events. We are keeping an eye on these. They are located at shallow depth directly under the summit. They have the characteristics of regular tectonic earthquakes, NOT volcanic earthquakes. A MINOR EARTHQUAKE OCCURRED AT 10:42 AM PST February 19, 2002 THE MAGNITUDE 3.2 EVENT IS LOCATED 0.9 Miles N of Mt Rainier, WA THE HYPOCENTRAL DEPTH IS 0.0 MILES

the palisades are awesome, i was just there this new years eve. the route up U notch is pretty straight forward. if you can, hit it the route early (ie. spring time). it’s much easier then. there are 2 major routes up North Pal from the top of U notch couloir, (both mid 5th class). see the new high sierra guide by secor, it's pretty accurate. if i recall correctly, there is a 5.2 climb from U notch to the top of polemonium peak. if you've got the time, check out the routes on temple crag. you'll pass it on the way to the palisade glacier, by 2nd lake. and mt sill (near polemonium) supposedly has the best view of any sierra summit. oh yeah, the palisade glacier is very beautiful, but hardly threatening by glacier travel standards. if you're pretty savvy on glaciers, don't let this one bother you. W and i only saw 1 crevasse (which we EASILY stepped over.)

what the hell happened to this posts’???hey JRCO, i can see why that incident sticks in your mind. it would in mine too. i have a very bad taste for XXX, b/c of a bad run in. i’m sure W can recall. hey W, remember our day in port townsend?below is the accurate transcription of that phone call from ptarmigan ridge, this one is REAL folks, and sadly, its not that unusual. thankfully, we have so many great mountain rescuers in the pac NW. TMR, SMR, and OMR are a GREAT rescue resource for backcoutry travelers!mattp, I really enjoyed you meeting you at the slide show this fall. so i have to say, you’re a progressive guy, get over the bad information syndrome that’s plaguing you. especially something that happened to your friend 10 years ago. also keep in mind that many of people occassionally have suffered from bad information. anyway, NPS rangers aren’t the only ones who give inaccurate information in this world. we all take in crummy information from other sources?(like the media, corporations, etc?) hey “somebody,” who claims to be “nobody.” i’ve been apologizing a lot, but i’ll do it again, “sorry to hear you received some bad info about the kautz route years ago.” i feel that W addresses your point rather well so I wont expand, unless you have another query. i'd like to correct a few things however. first and foremost, rmi does NOT have an exclusive toilet... they did in the past, but don't anymore. anyway, leave rmi out of this. W said one thing that was GREAT in my opinion, “You would think that someone even thinking of attempting Ptarmigan wouldn't have to ask any questions about it, much less call from the foot of the freaking route to ask how HARD it is!!?! Argh! you see what I mean?” this implies that we get a lot of specific questions about really technical routes. we like to share this info, (if we have it), but sometimes you want to ask, “if you’re going to climb that hard route, why are you asking us for such specific directions?” this reminds me of the earlier posts about people who want to hear anything from the ranger, as long as it’s good! many people inquire about hard routes in the ranger station, but sometimes i wonder if they’re doing this to impress the folks who are with them. kind of like name dropping. would you agree W, Sean? about soloing. again, W sums it up well, except for ONE MAJOR POINT. climbing rangers should NOT be soloing while working. personally, i’ve stopped. we did this in the past, but we don’t anymore. the major reason being this, it’s NOT a good example to be set. rainier attracts so many aspiring climbers, it’s important that the NPS rangers set a good example, ESPECIALLY regarding safety. i’d like to add that we also like to wear helmets! especially on the DC.if you really want, let’s take the “climbing fee questions” to anther thread? the national guard does NOT remove climbers waste for free. as for sears, i hope to see him around longmire soon, hopefully he made the summit. and hopefully (he or his partner ryan), will post something about. hey marek, did you climb? any report? lastly, and I suppose this goes out to everyone, if you have something to say about the federal government, put it in WRITING! believe it or not, your agencies DO listen! if you have a better way of doing things, by all means, let the government know! don’t just bitch, get involved! it’s damn easy to criticize, but much harder to actually mend complex issues. one warning though, be prepared to compromise. there WILL be others’ who have equally as fervent of opinions, however they will be from the “other side.” as sean halling cynically points out, mary knows what’s best for everyone on the mountain. and as mary always says, “carry your tire chains while visiting rainier in the winter. and don’t camp at, camp hazard.”Transcript: Message Received at Paradise Old Station 7/1/99 at 2:17 PM Cell Phone Connection: “Hi There! We’re the Jadow… Jadow (sp?) party….[then says to his companion: “that right?” ] ….calling from 10,300 feet on Ptarmigan Ridge. We’re a party of six…we had some concerns …about the…when we get to… We’re looking at doing the 1934 variation, going…ah… towards the…uh… Mowich Icefall Route, coming out of the exit gully…uh, the rock exit gully. I was wondering if you could call us back. These are our questions: …as we’re coming along the top, traversing towards the rock exit gully…how steep is that? And then when we get to the rock exit gully, does anybody there know what it like? The length, the…the class of it? Whether its like…uh…easy class five and then what have we got at the top? Is there a place for belays, snow or ice belays? So you can give us a call at 604…that’s area code…604-603-7490. Its approximately 2:19…um… in the afternoon. Thank you very much, hopefully you can get back to us straightaway.”

hey jrco, sorry you had a bad run in on hood. too bad the ranger didn't just issue you a permit right there on the spot. let's put a few things about tickets in perspective. After 12 summers on rainier, i can only recall 5 tickets (perhaps i'm forgetting a few?) that have ever been written for climbing related violations. 3 of those were for illegal guiding and the other 2 were for solo climbing w/o a permit. all of these folks were CLEARLY aware of the regs and blatantly breaking them. no “forgetting” or “surprises” there. to my knowledge, no one has received a ticket for not registering. i'd like to add that i am NOT authorized or trained to write tickets OR arrest people. besides, resources related violations (like trampling fragile meadows, leaving human waste on route, etc) get me bent of shape more than permitting infractions. fyi, the folks on this site have posted numerous suggestions on how to avoid these types of hassles. i’ve seen their suggestions and must admit that for the most part, they’re right. vote the green party in 2004, and always carry tire chains when visiting rainier in the winter.

JRCO asks? "Speaking of permits and climbing rangers, what kind of authority due rangers have if they catch you without a permit?" well, it depends on the park/forest you visit and the type of ranger you meet. in short, they have all the authority they need. that authority is granted to them through the laws passed by congress. those laws are then administered by the excuetive branch of our government, (ie, the president, through his staff of secretaries, DOI, DOA etc). if you have a differing interpretation of the laws/regs, there is always the judicial system… "Can they give you a fine?" yes "Can they force you to leave the mountain?" yes "Can they arrest you?" yes, you can be arrested, but probably not over a permit... "I met a ranger on Hood who thougt we could do all of the above." i'm not surprised, he probably could do all of the above. not every ranger, however, can write tickets. if they can’t, they can usually get someone else on the radio who can...