Cpt.Caveman

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I read some defensive statements.

Yeah it sounds all fine and dandy but I don't think it's going to change much. I've already read about earlier this week people defending rap bolting on cracks and they seemed pretty adamant to continue. Perhaps they are as guilty as Retro.

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I think that the poll was fine. You can go into more detail but I doubt it's really necessary to get the information you want. Some people might want to include something like : Bolted cracks ok before breakfast or something retarded.

Yeah he has some nice ones. Paul that photo looks like the mountain is sick without snow.

Well who has one for sale?

http://www.osphoto.com/WCanada.htm

I dont think there is anything wrong with posting the info. There are sections of the descent that are getting eroded a bit. maybe it's from goats and maybe from humans or even both If it already exists then why bother complaining. If newbies want to epic on it then that's their deal.

Why was Chinamans Peak in Canada renamed Ha Ling Peak? When I was up there last summer one of the locals told me because they thought it was a little on the racist side. But that is nothing that I read. Nice peak with easy descent!

Nope

You can still get one on North Early Winter Spire. But not back to 196* Harry Majors I have heard some about you. Why dont you send me a copy too? My real address is not available but if you cannot figure out how to send a private message let me know. -RB

It's here that I think is something debatable but my opinion is that if I was to write some climbing guidebook I would either disinclude, edit, or *** the name. I dont see any time in the near 20 years any reason intent desire or etc to write a guidebook for myself. BTW the new Leavenworth guidebook is a big leap in production\quality even though it is off subject. I just wish they would still include some "carrots" or adventure routes that were in there years ago. Some to mention are Jupiter Rock and Waterfall Column which I hear rumors slapneck has done. Give the necessary beta slapneck!

Yeah Beckey is plab!

Fair enough. Just want to keep in mind he was climbing before all this committee, rules, and ethics era. Yet he has ethics, style and ideals. Maybe he has done some things in the mountains he may regret but my guess the impact was minimal compared to some. When I say some that doesnt single anyone particular or group out either. A little common sense will figure out MOST but not all of what I am saying. Yes he is definitely a person to be criticized but having some facts would help - not saying you have not provided any just making a broad statement.

Here's my answer to whether I climb, hike, ski, copulate, dance, drink, gamble, work, whatever. None of your goddamn business. There, happy now? Listen here green alien from mars I dont give fuck what you do. As long as I get to read what you have to say now and then you sick bitch

C'mon dude you know me?! I was screaming and repeating myself Basically what I am trying to say is that he understood the question and thought it was trivial and not worth investigating on my behalf. Spire Peak whatever is the impression I was getting...

I climb all ice nowadays with bent shaft light machines. Including snow slopes up to 60 degrees. I can understand the rant There are better options but I climb waterfalls and alpine stuff with the same set of tools. Whether you agree or prefer to or not is up to you. A good idea is to attend and ice festival and try out new tools there for free as well. Some tools I recommend: DMM Fly Rambo Pulsar Quasar Prophet Light machine or new equivelent

To say it is ok and glide over the fact that FB placed bolts only when he thought was absolutely necessary more times than not is kind of silly. It's really a short "out of context" question\response with a not so cleverly inserted "less gear or modern equipment" comment.

The stud of the bolt remnant is still there and I do believe it was placed for a belay as well.

Fred's placed a lot of bolts. One of his older partners told me his hammer was totally worn down to nothing on one trip. But I am sure he was using it for pitons more than bolts. There is an old summit magazine with talk about routes on the Chief. In there he somewhat critized a little (seemingly respectfully) the Grand Wall route and the amount of bolts and purity when compared with his never ?? done Northwest Passage route that didn't have half the bolts. I am not critizing the Grand Wall route or climbers that did it. Just some perspective. Meaning I think FB would rather take the natural line and preserve as much as possible. I clip all of FB bolts with glee and no shame. Even if he was using them for aid and people free climb them today without it. It's another era or 3 later now and things indeed have changed. But to keep focus on preservation is nice too. As far as loggers ledge well shit- You can scream more about the Deforest Service easily.

Some authors have a reputation to uphold and preferred to be respected. That doesnt mean they might not like a particular climb and may change the name a bit in order to include the climb in their book. I think most people get the general idea. But to ask Beckey if he is going to include muff diver 22 5.7 III in a book might be ridiculous. I mean I dont think he would publicly put that name in. Although he may respect the ascent I believe some authors have more class than that. I can totally agree with Mattp's comments about whale snatch and other stuff. It's cool to have an original name but I mean c'mon - it's just a fact of life that nobody has to print in their guidebook that sort of thing. At least they might put the line in there so others can enjoy. That's usually the biggest factor anyway. I am not a christian lover going to bible studies every sunday but I can definitely see why they may be edited removed or whatever. If a route is that good the word gets around fast.

Apparently you did. You had asserted that people were enjoying these climbs in much the same condition as they were in when first encountered by the first ascentionists. That is incorrect. If those climbs were now in the condition that they were in when first discovered, nobody would climb them except maybe Pete and Erik. I did a rock climb once and enjoyed the "dirt". It didnt mean I was going to clean it. I felt it was better training for me. I cant speak for anyone else. It just depends on what the situation is...

I referenced the Mountaineer 1945 volume 38 Number1 December I go with John Roper and think Beckey installed the "Spires" instead of Peaks originally referred by the Ptarmigan Club members. Edit: Spoke with FB and he kinda glanced off the whole minor idea of the Spires and Peaks thing. Seems to defninitely come from him. I don't think he gave it much thought although I asked him 3 times.

The only thing my dog knows is where the food is. Let's give trask a day or 2 to respond and amaze us all. What a great idea. My guess is he'll decline and remark with some obscene comment