Peter_Puget

http://www.eskimo.com/%7Epc22/CC/Bboard/Messages/2135.html

Off - Isn't Echo a wonderful place. Love just hanging there. Hiking swimming and good climbing right from your cabin. I always love scoping short face routes there. Long drive to Donner tho'. Did youclimb at any other areas?

Erik - That offwitdth at Index _ what's the pro? What about the last pitch of Narrow Arow Direct

Speaking of Index why aren't the sport climbs there more popular. I did First Offense not long ago and it was fun plus those on the Blues cliff are good too. Don't say they are all dirty because some are clean except for the cob webs! By the way Racer X is a fun sport climb too.

fifth force at index for the NW. I orget the name bu t those routes on el;ephant rock in Yosemite.

ALl this talk of Sadhappy go tme thinking about Slapp Happy - they rock!

Not sure where I read that. Some tid bit somewhere. But anyone want to read a wonderfull short book expounding on some basic Mises I would suggest Entrepreneurship by Israel Kirzner. Name and author might be off a bit.

I'll keep it short for AlpineK. Simply put statements like 'it is not economic for individuals or companies to do. Show a complete misunderstanding of let's say Mises and most of the basic libertarian thinkers. Rand tried to produce some silly philosophy of life and in my opinion is a sideshow, the Libertarians with a more economic background (generally of the Austrian School), Milton Friedman being one of the most prominent exceptions, confounded their colleagues by their insistence on the worthlessness of most of the commonly used macroeconomic data points (eg: national income accounts and so on) Mises himself titled his grand work "Human Action" and virtually eliminated most traditional economic analysis from its pages. These thinkers (RIGHTLY) held that all human purposeful action is the result of "economic" calculation and assert that the individual is supreme in his valuations. Economics is viewed as being as immutable as the tides. People are free to choose any form of government it wants but to the extent laws are enacted their effects can be predicted by the application of basic economic theory. In general their analysis and experiences made them suspicious of government intervention NOT because they were against the goals of the intervention but felt that the goals would be best reached via other methods.

Sexy - Mises (one of Libertarianism 20th century founding fathers and one of Mtgoats fav orgs namesake) and Rand while often thrown into the same camp. They are in fact not the same. In fact Mises is well known for his contemptuous ridculing of her philosophy to her face at a dinner party. [ 08-23-2002, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: Peter Puget ]

What about the first pitch of Sagittarius at Index?

Still enjoying having a stereo again! Two more recomends: James "Blood" Ulmer: Tales of Captain Black (no recent stuff!) and almost anything by Henry Threadgill.

This is for MtnGoat: Those who wish to enact campaign finance "reform" legislation simply wish to use the polic epowers of the state to for the citizens to do something they would rather not do.

Trexlar is a good climb if I can remember it. Don't some larger cams come in handy? Is that off to the left of Minas Morgol? (sp?)

Hear the monster roar! [ 08-22-2002, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: Peter Puget ]

Off - Your wish is my....check out the post with the pic.

Sorry for the thread drift. Back to Godzilla now. Singing [ 08-22-2002, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: Peter Puget ]

Why no thave almost immediate posting of donations indicating quantity and donor posted to a web site. Let the people decide!!

Alright Sexy you had me sweating there. I had to back and see jus twhat I wrote! It was "most sportos who climb 5.13" Ambiguous to be sure but ambiguity saved me. To be clearer: I would add the word "routes" right after 5.13! Now I wish you never came back! Cheers PP

Hmm I always forget the thumbs up PP

quote: Originally posted by sexual chocolate: Now we're really getting into semantic mince-meat.... "All-around 5.11 climbers" can be shown 5.11s that they would piss their collective pants on. Which begs the question: What does it mean to be a solid 5.11 climber? If'n ya don't can't won't do a certain 5.11, ya ain't a "all-around 5.11 climber"? Well it does beg the question somewhat. What I would say is that those 5.11s one can't/won't climb would be "few." quote: PP: The term "few" places some conditional limits on a given context, regardless of one's peripatetic reasoning.... If I know a "few" climbers, this would limit that sample pool to perhaps 5 in size. Now if a few of those climb X, Y, or Z, "few" would still denote a number which the term refers to: "Amounting to or consisting of a small number: one of my few bad habits. Being more than one but indefinitely small in number: bowled a few strings." (per www.dictionary.com) So given this sordid state of affairs, ALL of my 5.13 climber buds could be "all-around 5.11 climbers", since the sample pool is but a "few".... Ummmm....so there. Well it is nice if they all are. That still doesn't change my argument anymore than the probability of having "heads" come up the next time you flip a coin changes after it comes up heads 10 times in a row just before the flip in question. But I do question your use of the dictionary. It is not the word "few" that enables you to not be inconsistent by now claiming that ALL your 5.13 friends are solid all-around 5.11 leaders. But your previous use of the word "least". Here it is: at least a few of the 5.13 climbers I know are quite good on trad, with 5.12 gear on-sight abilities. Please less time in the gym and more in school! By the way any volunteers to tow me up Mary's Tears/Crucifx? PP

quote: Originally posted by sexual chocolate: BTW, PP, 12c trad onsight, yet only V3 bouldering? Those are lopsided enough numbers to make Dwayner jealous.... Been climbing along time.

To those who think money plays too big a role in political campaigns I would ask the following: Think about what is at stake. The US economy, world wide economy, possible wars or not wars, the enviroment and so forth. Now tell me what thats worth and without reference tell me how much is spent campaigning. Now tell me without looking what spent on advertising for something like say dish soap. Now dish soap or what ever you've chosen is probably a very small market relative to what's at stake in a politcal debate. And yet for many every day things much more is spent on advertising. What I find amazing is that we care so little that we spend so little. By the way Dru is Canada even a real country? I have some money at home with some queen on it? Who is she ruling!

Quote by RUMR form Godzilla Thread :"I think the key to these guys was their training programs/climbing volume of which a significant portion was plastic and sport climbing. Mr. Dwayner would be hard pressed to find a "trad-only" guy that could go w/ them regarding enthusiasm/love for climbing or technical ability. And he can say whatever he pleases, the proof is in the pudding." Not at all there are lots of guys I could think of and I am sure Off could too. Besides I am not sure Dwayner was claiming sportos do not have enthusiasm, love for climbing or technical ability; however, if he was picking one or two exceptions to a rule sort of proves it. By the way I have climbed with both these gents and I would say that if Andy asked if I wanted a tow up Mary's Tears or Geek Towers I'd say yep. If the other did, I'd suggest something more modest. PP

quote: Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing: Thanks for clearing that up. In that case, PP's point is poop (heh-heh). Obviously, most sport climbers who consider themselves solid on 5.whatever are probably talking sport routes if they don't climb trad. So if we're talking about not being a solid 5.11+ climber in that respect, yeah, it probably applies. But as far as sportness goes, DFA can't imagine a 5.13 sportiste not being solid on 5.11 sport routes. Inconceivable! Hey silly Dr. I saidall-around 5.11. To much time in flash school! Off - Isn't amazing these guys don't know about Mary's/Crucifx? PP [ 08-22-2002, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Peter Puget ]

Dwayner - You promised to keep my identity secret!