Peter_Puget

maybe the first time well ok the second..........well ok the 20th time was ok.....but the 125th it was starting to get old or be merely a wan insult.

Don't confuse sport climbing with grid bolting. they are two different things. PP

OK poll time:Peter_Puget All Around Mean GuySaying Bullshit in the above post shows PP at his core is mean!Dwayner is simply in error Bu tI do again ask you to answer some of my questions. Here is one thing that confuses me:Dwayner said earlier in the thread:"The issue at its core has to do with excessive use of PERMANENT anchors followed by unlimited rehearsal to wire climbs that would otherwise be way over your head"Dawayner said later:"I don't care if you or anyone else hang-dogs...just don't tell me you're really up for the route or a "5.13" or whatever climber if you require that."Now my simple mind seemed to think that in your first quote you were telling me the issue being discussed was explicitly link to hangdog type tactics. The second seems to refute that understanding.Please clarify and be nice about it won't ya.respectfully,PP

Hmm.... well you might call it an insult but given the context in which we are posting I call bullshit on your claim. I do find it odd that you bother to attack me instead of my assertion that your argument is at best messy (see below). This evasion is even more odd after Rumr expressly agreed with my statements. I guess this is your tacit agreement that your argument is bogus. PP Copy and paste from earlier post in this thread: Dwayner quote: The issue at its core has to do with excessive use of PERMANENT anchors followed by unlimited rehearsal to wire climbs that would otherwise be way over your head. By combining two issues you make a mess of your argument and make your motivations suspect. “Unlimited rehearsal” to wire climbs is an age old practice that predates the dawn of sport climbing. Do you really mean to suggest that excessive (what ever that is defined as) use of permanent anchors is ok without unlimited rehearsal. I think not. What upsets you seems to be both bolts and the style in which people climb. I can agree with your concerns about the former but as for the latter I can only say get a life! If someone hangdogs a route, pulls on every piece, flashes, or free solos a route my only concern for them is that I hope they have a safe and enjoyable climb. Now some of the harder sport routes at Si have seen a bunch of rehearsal but the use of bolts is nowhere near excessive (I am talking long falls for sure!) are these acceptable? Is this style acceptable?

good idea! - right after the rock forum and Dwayner's big wall chat room. Dwayner and I have not exchanged insults or been disrespectful. You goofballs should follow our lead! PP

What does stupid mean? Contrived? Easy? Dirty? Man you coulda been at the Calendar Crag! PP

Rumr - you've got to be kidding! But do you disagree with me?

Since Timmy is taking longer than expected with the NEW ROCK CLIMBING FORUM , I have decided to chime in again. Dwayner quote: The issue at its core has to do with excessive use of PERMANENT anchors followed by unlimited rehearsal to wire climbs that would otherwise be way over your head. By combining two issues you make a mess of your argument and make your motivations suspect. “Unlimited rehearsal” to wire climbs is an age old practice that predates the dawn of sport climbing. Do you really mean to suggest that excessive (what ever that is defined as) use of permanent anchors is ok without unlimited rehearsal. I think not. What upsets you seems to be both bolts and the style in which people climb. I can agree with your concerns about the former but as for the latter I can only say get a life! If someone hangdogs a route, pulls on every piece, flashes, or free solos a route my only concern for them is that I hope they have a safe and enjoyable climb. Now some of the harder sport routes at Si have seen a bunch of rehearsal but the use of bolts is nowhere near excessive (I am talking long falls for sure!) are these acceptable? Is this style acceptable? PP

I think this crag was developed by some guys from Cascade Crags. Do you know anything about it?

Good work Scott!

Maybe your community service could be recleaning routes and replacing rusty bolts!

Mirkwood Forest although the new guide indicates that it has been recleaned when I did it it was unbelievably filthy and very hard to get pro. PP

I got one pop-up Sure it isn't from some porn site you frequent?

Designed by Trask? PP

Sport climbing will always be vital and meaningful to whomever appreciates it. Beyond that, any qualms about its cultural or societal relevance fade into insignificance. PP

Dwayner Thanks for the clarification. I guess you agree with my first comment. Timmy - This debate is over because I am saying my typing for quality posts in the NEW ROCK CLIMBING FORUM! PP

Well the smart ass answer is: It can be - If it is a bolted crack! But Rod I was referring to how weenie trad climbing has become. I was not directly commenting on Sport climbing. But check out the attachment for one example of how Sport Climbing can rock! PP

Dwayner's not bad and neither is Peter. I just need to lure him out for a weekend at Smith.

hmm so I can bolt all I want if I "shred" the route quickly. But I must say thatI find excessive bolts ugly regardless of how long people work on a route. Dwayner, this quotes makes me realize just how far removed you are from real climbing as opposed to armchair pontificating. clean gear is easy to place That is simply not always true. Placing clean gear can be an art - one that is difficult to learn. If your missing this, think about what else you are missing! PP

Anyone ever climb Phoenix in Yosemite? Now there is a dumbed down weenie route if ever there one. Get this - the pro is perfect! Who cares if the jams are technical at one point and strenuous the whole way. It’s a total weenie route. Any old lady and her grandmother could (given enough time) red point that sucker. Come to think of it the same goes for Tales of Power or Supercrack, any pitch on Astroman and City Park! These climbs are all examples of the dumbing down of climbing. In fact any well protected climb is an affront to the very values that built this grand country! Ropeless is the only way to go and since I am prone to falling I am forced by my high minded ethical nature to become a pad person. PP

Aint enough time left in the life of the universe for that!

People grab pro on trad climbs too. It is not uncommon for people to yard from piece to piece on hard cracks. Heck how many people hang on Sentry Box? How many people grab a sling after a runout slab section? PP

I am so out of place. Not even Muffy likes me. The only place I feel at home is the NEW RO..... PP

The political emergence of Schwarzenegger is a wonderful development, and not just for hacks like yours truly who love a good story. Arnold is an "eagle": he's tough on terror, open-minded on cultural issues, fiscally conservative. He's also a brilliant politician. How do I know? Just rent "Pumping Iron," the legendary bodybuilding documentary of the 1970s. It captures Shwarzenegger's extraordinary ease with people, his irony, his composure, his wit, his gift with strategy and his determination. If I'm not mistaken, it also shows him lighting up a big fat joint after one of the contests. If ever there was a moment for that type of Republican, this is it. Arnold's my man.