Peter_Puget

Is this the Let's All Mock Peter Puget Forum?

Great idea! It can be the opening for your New Rock Climbing Forum! Get that sucka going! PP

Good job Sparky! You are slowly moving into a better argument! You are bored! Think about us who had to listen to your confusion until page 6! Good Karma points for everyone who lasted this long! I think most everyone agreed before the thread started that bolting can get out of hand. What has your discourse added to the debate? Not a lot although it did give you an opportunity to insult large classes of people and specific individuals such as myself. The great revelation you have is: Sport climbing by its nature is bolt-dependent. Some of us think that bolts should at best be used sparingly if at all. I suggest you simply post those two sentences whenever you feel the need to enter the debate. The difficult part of the debate is in getting people to work together and to consider other people perspectives for the betterment of all. Once in the chat room I encouraged you to write something telling what it was about trad climbing that inspired you rather than taking the low road of insult. Sadly you chose not to do this. PP

Answer is it depends. But I would say the rating wouldn't matter very much in deciding. Honestly I am not out putting routes up very often but some of the factors I would consider would be how good the route was, was it a squeeze job, is there an easy way to set up a TR? Would putting in a lead route enable other routes nearby to be top roped. You question leads me to think that you understand me to be arguing for bolts. I ask how do you come to that conclusion. What I am arguing for is an honest debate. PP

No poser here! PP

here's a link to some college dorm pics after student demonstraotors were taken! these student have more balls than twight ever could hope for and I didnt post the pics of some of the students themselves PP

LOL Dwayner cracks me up! This is Dwayner coming as close as his pride will let him admitting my earlier point that his argumentationt was a serious mess. Simply put it was not making much sense. I am glad you are trying to straghten it out now. I must say I wasn't surprised but a bit saddened by your personal attacks. This is our own goofy academy and although our discussions can be a bit con moto let's keep them freindly. Dwayner here is an excerpt from a post of mine on page 4 of this thread: By combining two issues you make a mess of your argument and make your motivations suspect. Thanks for your second paragraph quoted above. Of course you argument is still suspect. Sport bolting itself( I ask for a definition please!) to my mind isn't the issue. Imagine Vantage with only 6 sport routes. Not such a goofy mess. Many areas had climbing restrictions in the old days too. A more logical cause of the problem is simply over crowding and overcrowding isn't the same as sport climbing. For example some areas in Nor Cal (limestone) have several sport routes in place and tr anchors for tr routes. Pope's comments are as usual full of vitriol and goofiness. Why he quotes Dick I am not sure but I can say that I have spent many hours bouldering and climbing sport routes with Dick. His main whine about sport routes is that many end in space rather than at a ledge/stance. To him this is a bogus route. The same would hold true to a crack which ended at a blank section. PP

maybe the first time well ok the second..........well ok the 20th time was ok.....but the 125th it was starting to get old or be merely a wan insult.

Don't confuse sport climbing with grid bolting. they are two different things. PP

OK poll time:Peter_Puget All Around Mean GuySaying Bullshit in the above post shows PP at his core is mean!Dwayner is simply in error Bu tI do again ask you to answer some of my questions. Here is one thing that confuses me:Dwayner said earlier in the thread:"The issue at its core has to do with excessive use of PERMANENT anchors followed by unlimited rehearsal to wire climbs that would otherwise be way over your head"Dawayner said later:"I don't care if you or anyone else hang-dogs...just don't tell me you're really up for the route or a "5.13" or whatever climber if you require that."Now my simple mind seemed to think that in your first quote you were telling me the issue being discussed was explicitly link to hangdog type tactics. The second seems to refute that understanding.Please clarify and be nice about it won't ya.respectfully,PP

Hmm.... well you might call it an insult but given the context in which we are posting I call bullshit on your claim. I do find it odd that you bother to attack me instead of my assertion that your argument is at best messy (see below). This evasion is even more odd after Rumr expressly agreed with my statements. I guess this is your tacit agreement that your argument is bogus. PP Copy and paste from earlier post in this thread: Dwayner quote: The issue at its core has to do with excessive use of PERMANENT anchors followed by unlimited rehearsal to wire climbs that would otherwise be way over your head. By combining two issues you make a mess of your argument and make your motivations suspect. “Unlimited rehearsal” to wire climbs is an age old practice that predates the dawn of sport climbing. Do you really mean to suggest that excessive (what ever that is defined as) use of permanent anchors is ok without unlimited rehearsal. I think not. What upsets you seems to be both bolts and the style in which people climb. I can agree with your concerns about the former but as for the latter I can only say get a life! If someone hangdogs a route, pulls on every piece, flashes, or free solos a route my only concern for them is that I hope they have a safe and enjoyable climb. Now some of the harder sport routes at Si have seen a bunch of rehearsal but the use of bolts is nowhere near excessive (I am talking long falls for sure!) are these acceptable? Is this style acceptable?

good idea! - right after the rock forum and Dwayner's big wall chat room. Dwayner and I have not exchanged insults or been disrespectful. You goofballs should follow our lead! PP

What does stupid mean? Contrived? Easy? Dirty? Man you coulda been at the Calendar Crag! PP

Rumr - you've got to be kidding! But do you disagree with me?

Since Timmy is taking longer than expected with the NEW ROCK CLIMBING FORUM , I have decided to chime in again. Dwayner quote: The issue at its core has to do with excessive use of PERMANENT anchors followed by unlimited rehearsal to wire climbs that would otherwise be way over your head. By combining two issues you make a mess of your argument and make your motivations suspect. “Unlimited rehearsal” to wire climbs is an age old practice that predates the dawn of sport climbing. Do you really mean to suggest that excessive (what ever that is defined as) use of permanent anchors is ok without unlimited rehearsal. I think not. What upsets you seems to be both bolts and the style in which people climb. I can agree with your concerns about the former but as for the latter I can only say get a life! If someone hangdogs a route, pulls on every piece, flashes, or free solos a route my only concern for them is that I hope they have a safe and enjoyable climb. Now some of the harder sport routes at Si have seen a bunch of rehearsal but the use of bolts is nowhere near excessive (I am talking long falls for sure!) are these acceptable? Is this style acceptable? PP

I think this crag was developed by some guys from Cascade Crags. Do you know anything about it?

Good work Scott!

Maybe your community service could be recleaning routes and replacing rusty bolts!

Mirkwood Forest although the new guide indicates that it has been recleaned when I did it it was unbelievably filthy and very hard to get pro. PP

I got one pop-up Sure it isn't from some porn site you frequent?

Designed by Trask? PP

Sport climbing will always be vital and meaningful to whomever appreciates it. Beyond that, any qualms about its cultural or societal relevance fade into insignificance. PP

Dwayner Thanks for the clarification. I guess you agree with my first comment. Timmy - This debate is over because I am saying my typing for quality posts in the NEW ROCK CLIMBING FORUM! PP

Well the smart ass answer is: It can be - If it is a bolted crack! But Rod I was referring to how weenie trad climbing has become. I was not directly commenting on Sport climbing. But check out the attachment for one example of how Sport Climbing can rock! PP

Dwayner's not bad and neither is Peter. I just need to lure him out for a weekend at Smith.