Lambone

dude, do you have any idea what the scope of a precident like this could look like? Many crags in Southern Oregon are closed in the spring now due to Perigrine nesting. But this new policy basically says they could close crags for ANY migratory bird. Think of all Oregon Crags and many in Washington I'm sure being closed during nesting season (most of spring and summer). think before you spout off on this, and be careful what you wish for.

aid or not, leashless is more fun. I admit to having almost dropped a tool though...a missed swing can cause a deflection and significant vibration in the shaft of the tool, and if your pumped enough it could mean bye-bye. I'm tempted to climb with a third tool, but after seeing a freind almost impail himself with his, this scares me almost just as much...

Quote from somebody on Supertaco:

has this been posted on cc.com yet? could we get it in the access forum? message copied from here: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=297228 worth a read Dangerous New Precedent Could Close Access to Multiple National Forest Recreational Areas Stop the Closures…Act NOW! -- Instructions Below -- Deadline for public comment ends on January 12, 2007 The Cleveland National Forest in San Diego, California is about to impose access closures to ALL forms of recreational use at four National Forest areas: Corte Madera Mountain, El Cajon Mountain, Rock Mountain, and Eagle Peak. Very alarming is that this information is not available to the public via the Forest Service website, the Federal Register, or SOPA (Schedule Of Proposed Actions) as required within the National Environmental Protection Act of 1969. These closures will ban ALL human activity within a ½ mile radius of any current or future golden eagle, prairie falcon, or “other cliff-nesting species” nests, even though these “other” species types are not explicitly identified in the proposed closures. However, given that the closures are in part being based on the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1916, of the over 800 birds listed, many are quite common such as the swallow, hummingbird, and raven. The results could be catastrophic by not only closing local areas, but establishing legal precedent for widespread closures across all U.S. National Forest! These closures affect climbers, hikers, backpackers, mountain-bikers, horseback riders, and off-road enthusiasts alike, setting legal precedent to close off multiple recreational areas within any National Forest!!! Join this important letter writing campaign (instructions at the bottom) and tell the Cleveland National Forest that you oppose all closures of this type! If no comments are received during the public comment period, the Forest Service will assume that we support their proposals and they will close our recreational areas. Tell the Cleveland National Forest that you oppose these closures because: 1. These closures are inconsistent with the USFS multiple use mandate, “as set forth in law…to meet the diverse needs of people,” and as such do not adequately take into consideration the unique value of climbing, hiking, backpacking, mountain-biking, horseback riding, and off-roading on forest lands. 2. The Forest Service is misinterpreting its legal authority to use the Migratory Bird Treaty Act (MBTA), together with the Golden Eagle Protection Act, to close large tracks of our public lands for passive uses, be it hiking, riding, picnicking, or rock climbing. This is a radically extreme method to limit recreational use on our public lands given that the MBTA was initially entered into by congress in 1916 to prevent the over-commercialization of “migratory” birds. 3. In particular, the Corte Madera proposed closure is being based on the “historical” presence of eagles since golden eagles have not nested there for over 15 years. As such, this measure is extreme and onerous and based on unscientific reasoning. 4. The proposed closure limit distances are arbitrary because they are not based on exact nest locations, not accurately depicted from presumed nests on the USFS closure proposal maps, or based on sound scientific evidence. 5. The Golden Eagle and Prairie Falcon are not threatened or endangered species and therefore do not need drastic protection measures like these closures to breed successfully. 6. Climbers, Hikers, and other National Forest users have co-existed with wildlife peacefully for decades; therefore, among other factors, changing climate conditions and decline of natural prey populations are more likely to blame for any suspected loss in bird numbers. 7. These closures are inconsistent with bird closure precedent already established nation-wide. Simply cut-&-paste the above reasons to TWO separate letters (added comments definitely help) Title each of your letters separately (it is VERY IMPORTANT that the titles are accurate) First letter -- Comments to proposed seasonal closures at Corte Madera Mountain & El Cajon Mountain Second letter -- Comments to proposed seasonal closures at Rock Mountain & Eagle Peak Send directly to the Cleveland National Forest at: kwinter@fs.fed.us Kirsten Winter Cleveland National Forest 10845 Rancho Bernardo Rd #200 San Diego, Ca 92127

Thanks for the link John, survey completed, way to go Jo Jo!

Apparently the tribe just wants climbers to steer clear of the moouth of the Kalamath and their cerimonial spot. Seems like a fair request. Just trying to spread the awareness. Lost Rocks is never likely to be a crowded climbing area, but nevertheless we should be respectful.

BeartoothMT, go to hell you disrespectful sac of shit.

whoa! huh? cool TR!

Cody just isn't picked out like Hyalite is...

Pink, Brook is/was head of Everet Search and Rescue. So in effect, yes he is a teacher. But currently he is a student. Definately taught me some stuff on that climb.

South Seas to Pacific Ocean Wall June 2006, 10 days on the wall, 27 pitches most technically challanging and psyochologically and physically demanding couldn't have done it without my partner Brook Alongi form Everet.

wherabouts finger?

this thread is pissing ALOT of people off right now twocents, as we discussed last night.

sweet john! I wanna go with you next time!

I speculate they are all dead and may never be found. MLUs would have helped resuers find their frozen corpses. At least freezing to death is a realtively peaceful way to go. I'm with b_rock

ah but yes they do...and they are made in my hometown! LANDSHARK

yeah man I speculate that they had bad luck.

what dwayner, no love for the Bone?

you know what, I highly doubt the climbers families are reading these stupid threads anymore. they are probably in church with there loved ones. so who gives a shit.

Folks, It is time to start accepting the inevitable outcome of this tragedy, stop asking questions, and hope that some day the remains of these two fine climbers be found on the icy slopes of Hood. Soon enough the Sherrif will change the title of the mission from rescue to recovery. The sooner the better I think. May baby Jesus be with you.

give jon and timmy a break, they have paid out alot for this site over the years. especially in time...

we are all aware of this, but keep hoping.

Sherrif Wampler shouldn't have said anything about an accident or them falling. it is speculations and this missinformation is the outcome.

"hi mom" hahah, classic, that looks scary! wiki is whacked

I was wondering the same thing.