Lambone

Ok, so I read it, and now I am dumber for it. Thought I'd piont out the full circle here... quote: Originally posted by crazypolishbob: general public doesn't care... ...a bunch of bullshit... ...they also take the first page in the news. Why do you not believe in "rescues?" Is it just you big ego telling you that you are above help from others... Have you hever been in a situation where you needed a rescue? I'm sure if you were, your tone would change quickly. Or maybe you would refuse the help...yeah right

quote: Originally posted by crazypolishbob: who cares what the facts are- not the media.so why give the the fuel? general public doesn't care. That's bullshit. The general pubilic does care about what happened up there...(to some extent). Why else would it have been publisized on National Radio? Cell phones save lives, and make a rescuers job easier. To say that they make people push beyond their limits is total unfounded speculation. I did't bother to read the rest of that crap.

fuck you prick...

that was some snow...not some no... Under 6,00ft the snow was patchy, but consistant coverage above 6,000. It was mostly firm enough to walk on, except for those few time that I dropped in to my waist. Stuart looks awsome right now, it's definately the best time to climb the Cascadian Couloir. I can't imagine who in their right mind would climb up it once the snow is gone... We couldn't see the Ice Cliff glacier, but the crevases on the Stuart Glacier looked pretty well buried. Have fun!

nolan, you must be having a bad evening... first Heinrich, and now this Bob guy... Although Bobs posts pretty much made me wanna puke, your new thread does the same. Time to take a chill pill. Or drink some beers

Hey Cpt. no offense, but are you sponsored by Jim Nelson? It seems you always plug his gear... Anyway, it is good stuff.

No disrespect to those poor folks... But you two assume that those three unfortunate climbers who got caught on the summit last weekend were the last party to climb Liberty Ridge. Is this true??? Maybe, but I think not. According to a post I read earlier today, another party summited shortly afterward. Regardless, do you believe the Ridge is somehow cursed and should not be spoken off due to last weeks events. Get real... Thanks for the info Henrich, way to get after it! Nice climb!

Glen, i thought we told you to quit bashing on the mountaineers...

quote: Originally posted by chucK: Hey Lambone! Did you get rescued up there this weekend? I almost called to be rescued from the heavy pack that was trying to kill me on the hike up to and down from the lake... Otherwise I did not see any sign of a rescue being held near Dragontail, although I was nervous that the party of 10 climbing up Dragontail from the Colchuck Col might provoke a rescue. Luckily they didn't I couldn't see any climbers on Serpintine or Backbone, but both routes looked primed and ready. [ 06-03-2002, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: Lambone ]

Hey Chris...we took snowshoes up to Colchuck lake this weekend just to be safe, and highly regreted it...totaly unescesary. From Colchuck we could see some no on longs pass, but I wouldn't worry about it. Get an easrly start for the CC, cause south facing snow was slopping up pretty quick. Have fun!

nice job dude!

Peter, Although it'd be nice if everyone lived and climbed by some standard code of ethics, the reality is that will never happen. I believe that my answer to your question is yes, most people will continue to nail regardless of whether the route has been free climbed or not. Is the route in a guide book? If so, people will bring heads, get to the spot wher you removed them, and replace them. Regardless of what we'd like to believe is ethical aid climbing, this will happen. Most of the climbers will probly not even know that the route has been free climbed. And most of those who do probly won't care. That is just my opinion, not that I wouldn't respect that it has been free'd, but that most people won't. Take the Shield for example. It has been climbed clean, yet most parties that climb it continue to nail (myself included). People have there own reasons to justify this, point is that it still happens. Anyway, I wouldn't feel guilty about making the climb not an option for many, because most of those many will do it anyway. I'm sure others will disagree.

Sweet, so you gotta get one, but they don't limit the number. Exactly what I was lookin for, thanks guys.

That seems pretty obvious...but do you need a permit to sleep out? I could allways call, but this is more conveinient...who knows?

Way cool, thanks alot! We may try and hit it up this weekend. Info is much appreciated.

Sounds like a cool place to expose my buddy from Chicago to the thrills of Mountaineering. When does access to the trail head usualy open up?

Call me ignorant, but do you need a permit to camp up there this early in the season?

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: The first section in question has been freed with a new bashie (an old chounaird alum head) and some runout climbing. PP Oh, I guess I was thinking about this statement... Sounds like whether you remove the heads or not, the pitch will continue to be hammered as old ones fall out or need to be replaced. If it is a popular aid route, people will continue to aid it (using heads)regardles of whether you have free climbed it or not. Good luck on your project!

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: Lambone’s “don’t bolt it because then you are removing an aid challenge” is interesting because by removing the heads and free climbing it, we have prevented many who previously aided the route from climbing it unless they choose to hammer stuff in a free pitch. We have in essence done what Lambone admonished us not to do. PP Hey Peter, I'd say if you've go what it takes to free it without pro, go for it! What I admonished you not to do was place bolts, so that the exitement of aiding the pitch on "bodyweight" placements is not removed. This is quite different than removing old fixed gear/junk. Doing this only returns the route to its "original state." I emphisize original, because there was only one true original state. Also, as I mentioned before. If aid climbers are not willing to place their own copperheads, then they should stay of routes that potentialy require them to place heads. Of course, as you mention, that opens up a whole 'nother can 'o worms, and as Scott mentions, what exactly is considered a "free pitch." I'd say that if you removed the heads and free climbed it without pro, RIGHT ON! Good form, thumbs up. Sounds similar to what the Huber brothers have been doing on El Cap. However, proclaiming this success on a public forum, yet not telling others what, where, or when this took place is just kinda lame. [ 05-30-2002, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Lambone ]

Either way you look at it, this sucks bad... It seems too me that the deaths were primarily caused by the collapse of a snow cave. Is this related to inexperience or ambition...who knows. To me it sounds like a freak event that could have happened to anyone, anywhere. Climbing involves risk, sleeping in snow caves involves risk...regardless of where you are from or what your experience is. It's really a shame

wow, August...I wanna climb Baker as well, but to be honest, I'm still working on plans for THIS weekend!

watch out for the bears

Bummer, was that the same person who was talking about City of rocks on this web site just a week or so ago?

quote: Originally posted by erik: peter, is the climb a popular aid route?? i doub it, i cannot think of too many routes in washington that could go free with heading on them(i may be ignorant) Both the Liberty Crack and Thin Red Line(I think) go free, and have head sections.

Um, I'm trying to imagine how you could possibly use a head seam for finger jams, or how/why you could possibly use finger jams for heads... If it is possible to get tips in this crack, then the heads should be unessecary, and should be removed regardless. Erik brings up a good point. How will you protect your free ascent? Gear...if so, then it sounds like the heads shoudn't be there in the first place. Bolts...bad form in my opinion. I don't think aid climbs should be bolted just cause someone wants to try and free climb it. It basicaly ruins the pitch for anyone aspiring to aid it. Heads arn't a permenant fixture, and anyone planing on doing a route with fixed heads should be prepared to deal if some are missing, or bad. If they didn't bring a hammer or cheater stick...tough luck I guess, enjoy the ride down.