mattp

Yeah, "blows goats" is what I say. Well not really. Some of the climbing on that route is really quite steller but, as with Outer Space, I'd give it an overall rating of "good" but not "fantastic." I say this because there is a lot of scrambling and monkeying around that is NOT classic, the summit is only moderately cool, and the approach and descent are definitely NOT classic. For clean, moderate granite in an alpine setting, go to the Bugaboos. I'd say the standard routes on Snowpatch and Pidgeon Spire far surpass the N. Ridge of Stuart in terms of overall quality (though they are much smaller climbs) and for for a bigger route that is roughly comparable to the full North Ridge of Stuart, the Beckey Chouinard on S. Howser was way cooler.

Mt. Cook IS cool. What route did you do? This one?

In my book, Outer Space is overrated. The last 2 1/2 pitches are great but the fist two are garbage, the crux pitch is in my view only OK, and that next one is certainly nothing to write home about. Overall it is a good though not great climb. I'd give Midway, Dreamer, DavisHolland/Lovin Arms all higher ratings than the "megaclassic" Outer Space.

Other interested parties? Lets carpool.

Does that illustrate or contradict your point matt? I think you just illustrated it perfectly.

I think it boils down to the fact that there are different goals here. Some people come to cc.com to meet other climbers and exchange information about climbing. Some just come here to entertain themselves when they are board at work, or to stroke their ego's, or perhaps to practice their debating skills, and it looks to me like some people post just to see their screen name on the monitor. Ever since I first came to the site, I've been arguing for more civility and less crudeness because I think cc.com could contribute more to the climbing community that way -- but others think it is real cool to be able to log in anonymously and act like an idiot all day long and, to a certain extent, the site owners agree with that. Yes, I believe that the whole tenor of the board would be both more civil and more genuinely informative if everyone were required to post under their real names, but then we'd have a different site -- wouldn't we?

I'd say the time for that would have been about a year ago, Trask. What do we do now, in your esteemed opinion? Do you think we ought to just pull out?

I'm sorry that not everybody is as brilliant as you, Necro. I don't see anything wrong with somebody trying to present something they think may be interesting -- skip if if you don't want to read it.

I thought it was because we waste too much time at cc.com.

My wife had a dog that got into that once upon a time. She wired one of its victims around its neck in hot summer weather and made him wear it around for three days. It never went after a chicken again.

I don't see what is wrong with Dean's comment, actually. Indeed, there ARE lots of guys with Confederate flag decals on their pickup trucks and I believe those decals ARE generally displayed as a symbol of some sort of disconnect with modern American politics that has both south-centric leanings but also a bit of an anti-liberal tilt to it. Maybe I should go back and read more about the context of Dean's remarks, but is there anything wrong with saying he wants to appeal to a broader voter base and he thinks his platform can serve folks that might dismiss him or his party because they are commonly protrayed as smart ass liberals held in the sway of the northeastern establishment?

That's what I was talking about, AT - just plain hiking. There are plenty of times I've been quite happy with the bumbershoot. Once at Shoqualmie Pass I found one very nice while riding the chairlift, too. When I visitted Germany a few years back, they were selling them with a wooden pole and plastic stays because they said you had to have a special "alpine vettershute" or something in order to be safe during thunderstorms.

I'm sorry you feel so slighted, CJF, but if you are getting wet from sweat, you probably have too many clothes on. In the scenario you described, I'm not sure which would be better to remove - the shell or the long underwear top, but that combination, or perhaps those garmets combined with your other clothes, are keeping you too warm if you are sweating and that is what is getting you wet rather than precipitation or the fact that you are lying in the snow. I quite often dig a cave with just my raincoat and no layer underneath. Whatever you do, you've already hinted that the goal should be to get as few items wet as possible. You may be smarter than the average bear, but I am constantly amazed at seeing my skiing companions sweat it out as they climb up hill with a sweater underneath their goretex and then they are too cold to sit there and eat lunch at the top. Similarly, most of my buddies seem unable to fathom the idea of stripping down under their shell gear while digging a snow cave. Wet clothes are pretty much the enemy, eh?

If you are sweating, CJF, you are obviously wearing too many clothes. You gotta stop for a miniute and take a sweater off, then put your shell back on. It's that easy.

Kurt Cobain

Sorry, Mike. But it might be a good idea to do what he says. I'd say you ought to look into a calcium delivery syetem: or maybe?

"We're not lost" (zero visibility, raining sideways, high on some volcano).

"You got a lighter?"

You got that right, Bronco. If it is sub-zero, you have absolutely no need to wear a raincoat. A windbreaker, maybe...

Ouch. Is THIS in your dead genre?

Actually, if we are talking about Colonial Creek, it snows there fairly often and some years there is a real snowpack there. However, it usually melts before any time when they are likely to be working on opening Washington Pass.

Scott, I don't dispute that Moore may be unethical. However, his movies are quite obviously a blend of documentary and drama and I don't think he is really trying to pass them off as otherwise. Now the Jessica Lynch story - that is pure fiction presented as truth.

You get wet digging them if you are wearing goretex but not if you have real rain gear. Also, as I indicated in another thread, I rarely ever see people dig one in a place where the snow falls out the door rather than having to be shovelled out - this dramatically decreases the work involved. For a short night as in on a weekend peak climb, though, I agree that the cave is probably not worth it.

I think you are the one with attention deficit here, CJF - I believe the comment about breathability was in reference to the use of an umbrella. Perhaps you twitch when holding the umbrella, too.