pope

It's just an opinion, and it's not just my opinion, and it's not the opinion that's so special, it's the wilderness. In the city, I accept certain evils as part of our culture, but I try to minimize my impact. When I go to the hills, I try to escape that stuff. Peace out bro.

Perspectives change when you get older. Unless you have NO attachments in this world, no family or friends, then just what in the hell are you doing up there? How can one be so selfish and irresponsible? On the other hand, when I was younger, I spent many days soloing. I used to drive to Leavenworth without a partner, used to turn down partners so I could solo. At the time, I remember justifying my actions by believing that I couldn't fall, because of my ability to focus on what I was doing. I used to solo, I suppose, to test this ability, and I always felt that if I were to make a mistake, at least I wasn't taking other people with me. And in this sense, soloing is way better than what a majority of high school kids are doing on Friday night behind the wheel of a car, with any number of mind-altering substances in their blood. Just remember, it's your life, but soloing is really unfair to anybody who cares about you.

Justify one sin by the existence of another.... Extrapolate that kind of logic and, let's see, Timmy McVeigh's heinous deed, put into perspective, is far less evil than the actions of Adolf, Pol Pot, and Milosovich. Guess if I bitch about McVeigh, somebody (Daniel) is going to point out that greater evil exists, and so Pope should "get real" and view things with "perspective". This "perspective" argument amounts to distraction from consideration of the question at hand. Just as when sport-boys accuse "tradsters" of being arrogant or less than congenial, right in the middle of a bolting ethics discussion. What does it have to do with bolting ethics? Even if these statements hold water, what you've got here is a very large vessel, but not a lot of water. Now, IF (that's a big "if") sport climbing has a place in this world, I absolutely agree that Exit 38 is a good place for it. While I can enjoy climbing there, I am concerned that many who do climb there think this trashy approach to climbing should exist where we old timers hang. In a perfect world, people would respect the tradition of a place like the Castle in Leavenworth and spare this beautifl cliff the dubious practices found at Exit 38.

I could have a good time doing all kinds of things: firing a gun within city limits, messin'around with your wife, beating up nice girls at a Mardi Gras celebration downtown, driving my motorcycle down the sidewalk,etc. Enjoyment is not justification when other factors must be considered, like the fact that cliffs are PUBLIC space and, therefore, should be used in such a way that doesn't step on others' toes. Like the fact that bolts damage rock and do so permanently. To you, enjoyment is enough motivation to bolt up a sport route, or to endorse this practice by clipping those bolts. Your enjoyment comes at a cost to me, however, and that's why we need to get back to the idea that cliffs are a limited, public resource which should be preserved.

Mike, wissen Sie wie diese Worte ubersetzen: "Mein Gesicht riecht wie Fisch!"? [This message has been edited by pope (edited 06-21-2001).]

I never think one should take the law into his own hands. Has anybody called the authorities?

Gentlemen, don't forget that your persuasive arguments are read by many, many people, and while most of the people posting may have made up their minds about what constitutes ethical fixed protection and restrained use of alpine playgrounds, a number of youngsters discovering the joys of mountain climbing would benefit from hearing how older guys think. When I started, I was fortunate to hook up with some mentors who not only taught me to double-check knots and "x" my 'biners, but who also gave me a sense of respect for preserving a rock face in the same way I'd respect a fragile meadow or a beautiful piece of hand-crafted furniture. I also read many of the bolt-war debates presented in mountaineering journals back in the 1980's, and I mean to tell you that youngsters read this shit and formulate their opinions based on passionately presented but logically grounded arguments. Sad thing is, most young climbers are introduced through gym climbing and the sport-cliff environment, where bolting is a huge part of the game. If you want to shape the future, if you want to see a generation of climbers who do give a shit, I think reaching these kids is the answer, and this forum is not a bad place to start.

POPE AIN'T IMPRESSED. [This message has been edited by pope (edited 06-21-2001).]

Shaved his legs and the he was a she. If I were Donna....I'd date myself. I used to chase hippy girls, and let me tell you, their furry little armpits tend to harbor a powerfully attractive feminine odor that would put this boy in a very vulnerable position. Is what we'd do is, we'd drive up to some hippy neighborhood, like Fairhaven in Bellingham, or down to Fremont, and then we'd sit in my friends bus with a couple of boxes of granola. We'd be wearing lots of beads and shit, pony-tail wigs, whatever. Anyway, as much as anything, the granola seemed to lure them in better than all our "props" and marijuana music. Of course, we lured our share of squirrels.

That's the theory, I know. Bolt up some choss and the whirlies clear out of Index. I used to think this way, but too many people are being introduced to climbing at a bolt-grid cliff, and to them, bolts aren't ugly, but appear to be an improvement to the alpine environment. Soon as these guys show up in Leavenworth (and they will), the mess spreads like a rash on sorority girl.

Boy, when you vote Republican, you sure are endorsing a fine group of people. You've got the blundering commander in chief, "W", the kind of guy to suck down six beers and get behind the wheel (my wife and her mother were hit by a drunk within a year of W's arrest; her mother didn't make it). What a piece of work he is, promising on a morning television show that he'd defend Taiwan from Chinese attack, then spending the rest of the week backing out of his statement. Yeah, he's the guy who states, "I don't care where we get the oil, we just need the oil!" regarding California's current energy crisis and solution of drilling in pristine Arctic areas. You like these guys? How 'bout Newt Gingrich, serving his wife divorce papers while she was in bed with cancer? How 'bout W's SAT score? I think WSU rejects applicants with higher scores than W's!

I've got to say, the only thing more annoying to me than a sport climber is your average GRATEFUL DEAD-FOLLOWIN', BUS-RIDIN', WHALE-SAVIN', SOY-CURD-SUCKIN', W.T.O.-PROTESTIN', LONG-HAIRED, WANNA-BE-LOGICIAN-TYPE ROCK HIPPY. I think WTO taught us that you're just a bunch of little A-pipes, about as annoying as your average teenaged hubcap jacker. Go smoke your peace pipe once more, and when you're done, shove it some place dark and smelly.

And all of this from the guy who was revolted to the point of wanting to retro-bolt City Park. Glad to have you aboard, Peter. I knew you felt this way about it the entire time, and I think you've done a splendid job of reiterating what has been said some power of ten times. And yes, DONNA IS HOT!

Is that what life comes down to, enjoyment? Can you think of things that would be enjoyable (think Katie Brown) but that might not be right? How about a gondola up the mighty Mt. Rainier? The wilderness ethic suggests that maximum enjoyment in wild places will be extended to many generations of enthusiasts by keeping things wild. I don't think you're unusual for enjoying clipping bolts, and it doesn't mean you are a wuss. It means that your desire for enjoyment is stronger than your belief in preserving wilderness. See you in Confessional.

WILL: Beautifully stated. Felt like I was reading the Bible. Righteous, man! SPED: That sort of descriptive writing is adequately exciting and difficult to misinterpret (and infinitely more pleasurable to read than a recent R&I article on bouldering in New York). Finally, could we get rid of this "Angst" word? It translates from German as "fear", and the only thing I'm afraid of is the day when I can't find a cliff without chicken bolts.

I have no knowledge of who wrote a guide to that abortion of a cliff, and I don't care. There probably isn't that much money to be made...I'm just being a wise acre. As noted above, the development of Exit 38 has had a positive, purifying effect on the environment around MY favorite cliffs; fewer people, less lycra, etc. On the other hand, we're now looking at a generation of climbers who think bolts BELONG at the cliffs, just like heather and pinecones. These guys grew up with bolts and sport cliffs, and when they visit Castle Rock, they obviously miss seeing them. They probably think the Castle looks naked without them, and next thing you know, the theory that Exit 38 keeps the rabble out of "trad" areas seems incorrect. They come around eventually, and they come with the Bosch.

It's neat to watch these youngsters grow over the years, watch their haircuts and jewelry evolve, watch them grow up into young men and women and get married while hanging on the side of a cliff and such. Maybe the best part of today's mountaineering periodicals is the columns in which we follow the personal lives of these "rock stars"...who's having a baby, who at chocolate cake in "iso" before the big comp, who's starting a company selling a new line of women's sports undergarments, etc. Come on now, how many of you have torn off the protective plastic cover from your newest issue of R&I, before you even got back from the mailbox, and turned directly to the gossip columns near the front of the magazine? How many of you get satisfaction out of knowing who David Graham and Obe Karion are dating, and where their next bouldering tour will take them? How many of you pattern your climbing fashion choices after what you saw Lynn Hill or Will Gadd sporting at the Trade Show last month? Confessional is open.

Mike, those items seem to disappear faster than fixed pitons. Maybe somebody should start a library card check-out system, so that we could send over-due notices to those who may have forgotten to return the Library's reading material. By the way, I'll bet that with a new supply of wanker magazines up there, we'll see a few more dropped ATC's and 'biners below Library Ledge.

Pope, Got a new role model, and it's as though you're reading my mind. I saw the Christian G. photos (shaving in the tub; climbing in his speedos; walking in snow storm with a big wool coat, lycra shorts, sketch pad, beatnik hat and pensive facial expression)....well, he's the guy, my inspiration. Got myself some Verve action gear (shorts, trousers and oversized hemp shopping/bouldering bag). Got a "racing" kit for my GTI, including an $850 steering wheel, for looking good on the way to the Forrest Land boulders). Got my copy of the Manifesto.... Maybe you wouldn't pattern your life after Christian, but at least I'm not chanting, "Be like Sharma!" whenever I set up for a sit-start.

Alpine K, There certainly is a shiny side to this coin!

An architect friend of mine learned that a client had done a number of first ascents back in the '70's. In a conversation, my friend commented, "Wow, sounds like you were quite the big wall climber." The client replied, "Back then, we called it rock climbing." I agree, the "trad" and "sport" designations disturb me as well. May I suggest calling the former "rock climbing", and calling the latter "rock raping".

Although I get upset about bolting, although I get frustrated that the damage happens without restraint (and seems impossible to reverse in some cases).....the style issues addressed in Confessional are completely a matter of preference, and choices you make about style only affect your integrity and self-respect. How you climb doesn't affect me (whether you rehearse or pre-place on rappel all of the stoppers in that crack you're trying to redpoint), so I don't care. Recent posts seem to ignore the idea that Pope is just trying to have fun with this website, not tell everybody what to do. Now for the real discussion: When Christian G. shaves his back, when he cuts off his Rasta hair and auctions it to teen idols, I think he becomes one of these people who transcend gender boundaries, and who appeal to both women and no small number of men, in the way that David Bowie and the "gal" in the CRYING GAME had all of us confused. Admit it now gentlemen, (and how appropriate is this question for Confessional?), how many of you questioned everything you thought you knew about boy/girl relationships and gender roles after viewing the CRYING GAME? How many of you began tinkering around with lycra, colour-coordinated quick draws and trendy haircuts when you first saw Christian G. in the tub shaving? P.S. Will, of all the "iniquities" mentioned, sand bagging somebody on a boulder problem, although completely dishonest behavior, isn't so terrible. The guys I used to see climbing stuff at the U.W. wall, things I'm sure they had totally wired, inspired me to try to improve my technique and remain calm and smooth even when I was on the verge of getting my ass kicked. [This message has been edited by pope (edited 06-19-2001).]

Thought I'd help the old-timers with some the jargon used to describe climbing at today's cutting edge! PROJECT (noun, as in, "Been workin' my project, dude."): Any climb which is desperately too difficult for you, but which you are determined to "free", style compromises notwithstanding. (Projects cannot be aid climbs, but one is allowed an enormous amount of aid whilst climbing one's project.....huh?). As a rule, a project may be as small as a boulder, or even the addition of a sit-start; it is understood that "sending" the project reserves the sender a page in mountaineering history, right next to Royal Robbins. BACKSTEP (verb, as in, "Dude, you need to backstep with the left foot and flag with the right."): The application of body weight to the out side edge of the rock boot's toe box. Prior to American subscription to sport climbing methods, NOBODY HAD EVER USED THE OUTSIDE OF HIS BOOT ON A ROCK CLIMB. DROP-KNEE (noun, as in, "Dude, I sank into a drop-knee to set up for a sick and rude crimp fest.") I was completely mistaken. The first time I heard this term, I was pretty sure somebody was about to deliver a BJ! Imagine my disappointment. Anyway, this one's a bit difficult to describe, but just imagine Morissey in leotards trying to work out a stubborn turd.

Pope, Where is this new crag? How can I get a hold of your guide? Sounds like it's going to be the summer to "send". Allez!

Had a great idea to make a few bucks. You know how it's way easier to climb a sport climb of a given grade than one where you've got to fiddle in the gear? You know how most people will tell you they can climb a certain grade of trad climb, and a different (higher) grade of sport climb? I've always hypothesized that this is one of the big attractions of sport climbing....we all get a little ego stroke when we easily snag those big numbers. Anyway, here's what I though I'd do. First, I'd find some chossy cliff that nobody cares much about, close to an urban center. Then I'd bolt the snot out of it, maybe even chip a few holds, glue a few buckets in the name of stabilization, etc., just to create controversy (free advertising). Finally, I'd write a guidebook in which every climb is grossly over graded. What do you think? Here's the brilliant part: Because the grades are soft, people would show up in mobs to climb the big numbers and get the ego stroke we all so desperately need. Because the routes are nearly impossible to distinguish (but for total bolt count, and relative position in the grid), one would either have to refer to the routes as "that 27-bolt climb" or "sixth bolt ladder from the left"....or (this is the really cute part) THEY'D HAVE TO BUY MY GUIDE!!!! My guide would provide the service of giving names to these bolt lines, as well as confirming in print that everybody at the cliff is on a 5.12 (even if they happen to be combing their hair or miming in the middle of the pitch). What do you think? Am I greedy? More importantly, has this scheme been tried yet, say along one of our major, even-numbered interstates?