pope

You chop, I'll buy the beer.

Buddy, I hope you've covered your tracks. Folks, the post from "Eric Mohler" wasn't written by Eric Mohler, just some guy who may be in a bunch of trouble. The real Eric Mohler is Pope. And now a message to the "Eric Mohler" who just posted: You are defaming my character, publishing slanderous statements in my name. I'm going to research your identity, and I'm going to take every legal and civil action I can against you. It ain't funny. Eric Mohler (aka Pope) ps, you've got a chance, a brief window of opportunity to make things right.

Back then, sex was safe and climbing was dangerous. Once at a Beckey slide show, he took a final question for the evening: Do you have any good bivouac stories? Fred responded that he did, but that she probably didn't want her name mentioned. Good night everybody.

Impossible? Given the resources, it's quite possible. Why, choco, was that you playing charades? I don't think charades are new to you. I think you're Peter Puget. No? Why do I think this? Let's just say either of you could successfully host Oprah's show if she needed the day off.

All I get out of this board is entertainment. Yes, I could offer more constructive advice, but I do find bolts offensive. I apologize for pissing off a lot of people, although a minority stance against bolts isn't automatically "negative".

Back in high school, Imabone thought "oral sex" meant talking about it with his buddies.

Sexy Chocolate, I think Peter's feeling ignored, while you guys dribble, dribble, dribble over moon dances and the like. Also, you were asking about the sexual metaphors I had employed (rape, abortion, etc.), and you seemed eager to explore the deeper significance of my "negativity" and anger about bolts. Thanks but no thanks. But if you can't seem to get enough Oprah-style chat, you know she's on at night also. You should check it out. Retro mentioned the the Bandaloop Dance Troupe....I'm curious whether anybody got a chance to see their show in Seattle last month. What a fascinating and colorful juxtaposition of the performing arts with climbing's adrenaline pumping exposure!

Terminal, you seem(ed) like a smart guy. My first paragraph is a prediction of how I thought others would reply to your post. Complete sarcasm, based on comments I'd been reading...just a review of reasons others have submitted favoring bolts. No, I agree with you completely, but I can see where if you didn't get the joke you'd be upset. To most of your questions? Yes, except that I haven't struggled up a 5.13. Not on the lead, and not by hanging on bolts. I've TR'd 5.12c on sight (the "brown point")!

Gee, Ima, just extrapolate your logic and we'll all be cutting buckets on the blank walls next to ROTC. Then, "chalange" would exist where once it did not!

Cracks. Friction. Learn to be solid any place in a crack or on a slab. Learn to stop and find rests in the most difficult parts of the crack climbs found at practice areas like the UW rock. Cracks and friction don't require much athletic ability, so if your technique is spotless, you should be able to climb up and down cracks you have wired, and you should be able to stop anywhere and rest. This training will transfer to granite climbing, adding the tenacity and calm you'll need for careful and correct placement of gear. Somebody once told me that if you can climb every crack at the UW, "real" cracks will seem easy. To an extent, it was good advice. Also, leg strength is perhaps more important than in sport climbing, since the routes don't tend to be as steep. However, training down at the gym obviously enhances your fitness, as long as you balance it with thin/delicate friction and face training so that you can function in the real world where jugs aren't ubiquitous (nor lime green).

Hotcha!

A terrible thing to admit, to be sure. Let's see, based on what I've been reading, you must be a bumbly who can't crank 5.6, and since you hold a minority position, you must be a radical. Last time I admitted to sharing your views, somebody compared me to Osama. And since bolts don't damage the environment to the same degree that, say, exploding gas pipelines do, we should quit worrying about them. Also, there's at least one climber doing 5.12 who thinks bolts are OK, so maybe you should too. Actually, you've hit the nail on the head: bolts remove challenge, and bolts certainly don't leave the cliff in any condition that could allow for subsequent parties to experience a natural, mountaineering challenge. The idea that lichen damage should be more of a concern? Kids, lichen thrives around here. When the lichen you see today is dead, and when the half-inch of rock below it has eroded away, we will still have bolt holes. If bolts were drilled at a more restrained pace, if we didn't have examples of abortions like Vantage to make us cringe, if we didn't have the last decades' bolt mania around Leavenworth, maybe old-timers like me wouldn't worry so much about the direction climbing seems to be going. Maybe the sporadic and thoughtfully placed bolt would be acceptable. I only hope that in the future we don't see a thread titled, "I admit it, I'm (mostly) anti-chipping."

When you're feeling guilty about the ugly mess you make at the crags, it's easy to turn the argument into one of new vs. old, innovation vs. inertia. It's also easy to (mistakenly) claim that "trad" climbers are envious of the big numbers put up by sporties, and it's easy to deceive yourself into thinking "trad" climbers care one way or the other about the "sport climbing culture" you've developed. Again, when you feel guilty, you'll look for just about anything to divert attention from the real issue. The truth: Yes, you sport climbers have some peculiar little habbits (hang dogging, use of gri-gris, surfer's accent, etc.), but there's room for all kinds of people in this world. Your average "trad" climber is only disgusted with the proliferation of bolts, and any insults that come your way have been primarily inspired by your disrespect for natural beauty. The myths: Sport climbers climb harder grades, and that's why envious "trad" climbers bitch about bolts. Well, my hardest flash was at Little Mt. Si, and while I remember the grade, I can't remember the name of the route (it followed some bolts). I do remember thinking how nice it would be to climb grades like that at Midnight Rock (not a chance!). Climbing steep rock requires amazing athletic ability, but I've seen good athletes master steep, difficult sport routes in their first year of climbing, routes that I'd never be able to climb, since I'm not a great athlete. Yet, these same climbers struggled on 5.9/5.10 routes at Index. My point: climbing involves leading, and leading involves rigging protection. When you take that skill out of the mix, it's just not the same game. Of course big numbers are going to be put up, when all you have to do is clip. I'm envious of good athletes in every sport. But just because I'm not 250 pounds, it doesn't mean I hate football. It's a splendid game, a game with complexity that I love to watch and coach. Similarly, just because I can't do a one-arm pullup, it doesn't mean I hate sport climbers. If I were a superb athlete, I'd continue to avoid bolting. I HATE BOLTS BECAUSE BOLTS ARE UGLY. I HATE RAP BOLTING BECAUSE IT DIMINISHES CHALLENGE. Myth #2: Rap bolting is not a new idea, it is simply culturally acceptable today. I'm not sure that climbers used to have better enviro morals, but for one reason or another bolts have become accepted by many climbers. Whichever side of the fence you're on, try to take your thoughts on this subject out of the current context: the bolts you fire in today will forever change these cliffs. Are we leaving a legacy of which our children may be proud, or are we acting selfishly? Myth #3: "Trad" climbers are not conservative, and most of them aren't on metamucil. Conservative climbers eliminate risk. Conservative climbers avoid uncertainty. Conservative climbers want going to the cliffs to be like shopping at Belle Square, where the only limit on establishing routes is the number of bolts and drilling equipment you can afford. Conservative climbers won't accept as part of the game the protection-rigging difficulties presented by a cliff...no, the cliff must be transformed into a sanitized, pre-packaged, risk-free "adventure", not entirely different from an amusement-park ride. Sport climbers are conservative. Sport climbers have removed sport from climbing. Sport climbers are neither. Yes, let's dispense with the current designations. Let's call sport climbers "rock rapers", and let's call tradsters "rock climbers".

Peter, I hesitate to respond to YOUR questions 'cause I think you're an annoying little wart. However, I find your questions to be neither mystifying nor incisive, and I will allow myself these remarks: 1. Is bolting always bad? When you're on the lead, and you've got a drill, and the moves are difficult, you are allowed to save your butt. You're placing gear that is immediately necessary to complete your lead safely. When you hike up and rappel down, then make the choice to drill, you're simply deceiving yourself when you believe that these actions will ever result in anything that resembles "leading" or "free climbing". Nevertheless, while bolting under the initial cirumstances seems admissable, and whereas adoption of such a style would tend to retard bolt infestation, I still don't like the results, and so I choose to top-rope when protection can't be found. 2. Since all human actions have impact at our crags, how should we recognize those which are immoral? Silly question. You just set up a matrix for each action, awarding points for things like visual impact, permanence, and challenge diminishment. For example, while chalk is ugly, it soon washes away. On the other hand, cutting a line of buckets is ugly, permanent, and it quickly turns a crag from big adventure into Ronald McDonald playland. As do bolts. 3. How may we add objectivity to such considerations? Easy. Exclude Peter Puget. [This message has been edited by pope (edited 10-04-2001).]

You clip bolts because you don't have money to buy a rack? Go to a cheaper college! Seriously, if you want safety, set up a top-rope. If you want adventure, scramble up a remote peak. It sounds like you clip bolts out of convenience...and hey, everybody admits that clipping bolts is easy, safe and fun. But doesn't it bother you when you see this unsightly trash all over our cliffs? Don't you understand that bolting damage is relatively permanent? If you do end up purchasing a power drill (after graduating from Parkland's Ivy League school), try to confine your engineering projects to cliffs that have already been molested by your bolt drilling buddies.

10.5 vs. 11 mm? The question is, will the weight saved with the lighter rope really enhance your performance to the point that it's worth the sacrifice in safety? A smaller diameter rope is more likely to cut over a sharp edge, and they shouldn't be used for "working" routes the way most climbers do today. If your rope cuts, that's it. It seems so obvious, but I'd come up with every other possible way to cut weight first. If a 'biner snaps, your fall increases, but you still live. Go with light 'biners, go with lighter cams, take a smaller rack, but I'm just not comfortable whipping on a wimpy line.

Fatty's Roomy (or "partner" or whatever), Based on my experiences, it requires a greater level of fitness to climb 5.11 moves through sections of dubious protection, where falls and hangs are not an option, than it does to boulder 5.12+ moves in between closely-spaced bolts (on each of which your average back-steppin', gri-gri grippin' sport dog customarily hangs...inspite of their, uh, fitness and courage). Also, I admire your desire to climb big numbers and establish new lines, but why can't you add to this personal quest the self-discipline required to respect the rock and STOP SHITTING ALL OVER IT WITH YOUR BOLTS? Wouldn't climbing new 5.12 routes in a rock/environmentally friendly manner give you twice the sense of accomplishment? It should.

I agree that you should consider the style in which routes are currently being established near the route in question. Allow me to clarify. If Chimney Rock is relatively bolt-free, if it seems to be in the same noble condition it was fifty years ago, then do you really want to be the guy who initializes its demotion to "sport cliff"? Do we really want yet another piece of alpine granite to which we can escape...only to find ugly reminders of man's exploitation of nature through engineering? On the other hand, if Chimney Rock is already sliding down that slippery slope, toward bolt infestation and "development" of artificially safe experiences, do you really want to add to this? No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.

Slappy, I'm look for a verb in that sentence.

Fat Guy, On behalf of those who find this site to be a source of sound mountaineering advice and wisdom, I apologize for those who would suggest that you add bolts to any established climb. And if anybody suggests that you carve some buckets or fix an aluminum ladder to the side of the cliff, in the name of making it safer or more accessible....that is also terrible advice.

Freak, so that's what those big pads are for! And I thought you were just padding your falls. Silly me. This is just another variation on the 1970's van craze, whereby a guy can let the girls know that he's always prepared for an encounter!

I missed a brilliant photo op this weekend...a buddy from Ellensburg was seen taking a leak, shorts around his ankles, tool in hand, all the while viewing an unsuspecting mountain goat from behind. I could have framed the goat through the "A" of his legs and given the photograph some catchy title like "Mountin' Goat". I once gave a slide show at a Mountaineers graduation, which seemed to be unanimously enjoyed...right up until I showed the transparency of salamanders conjugating subaqueously in Mowich Lake. I still consider that shot to be an exhibition of my brilliance behind lens and shutter....and so I ask, is this not art?

My buddy Charlie reported recently seeing a bunch of mattress-totin', rasta-cap sportin' boulder hoppers up at Ingal's Lake, and that this peculiar crew of enthusiasts seemed most excited about the prospect of "virgin" bouldering in the high country above Leavenworth. What do you think? Do the boulders around popular alpine camp sites like Ingal's Lake await deflowering? Does the lack of documentation imply a lack of previous climbing activity? Or, is it more likely that bouldering ("playing at climbing") has always been going on up there, by climbers looking for a little camp-side entertainment (in the absence of slow goats)? [This message has been edited by pope (edited 09-25-2001).]

How to set a bolt? First, you make up your mind to treat the mountain/wall like a proper lady, not a whore. You respect the defenses that she presents, and you convince yourself that your little project will be far more rewarding if you meet the mountain on her terms. Don't bring a gun to a fist fight. Next, you get a hold of one of the many fine manuals that detail safe/secure bolt placements. Then, with hand drill in holster and aiders and hooks at the ready, you WALK TO THE BASE OF YOUR GOD DAMNED ROUTE and you start climbing. If, after twenty feet, you find no place to stand or hook and drill, and if the climbing's difficult demands placement of a bolt, YOU CRAP YOUR PANTS AND BEGIN DOWN CLIMBING, having preserved the challenge for somebody who has developed the necessary skills to get the protection from the bottom up. That somebody might be you in a few years, and you'll be happy the challenge is still there.

jason_h, I must agree. Goofy outfits pervade the mountaineering circle, and shorts over polypro, together with glacier glasses and clown-white noses...well, these guys aren't going to score any phone numbers looking like that. And are climbing's other aspects also frivolous? You bet. Just like riding a skate board or collecting beanie babies, climbing is for amusement, and those who don't find it amusing will never understand the point. I'm sure that's half the appeal of the new bouldering craze: you can feel enlightened to be so focused on something that other climbers just don't understand. You can belong to an exclusive subculture and derive self-satisfaction thereby. But remember, putting around on a boulder doesn't automatically make you hip...folks have been doing that for decades. No, if you want to join the subculture, you've got to wear the trendy little outfit.