ryland_moore
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Posts posted by ryland_moore
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It would be interesting to see how many people who are answering this poll actually climb at Smith on a regular basis and always stay at the grasslands. Everyone who votes for number 2, do not come out to the grasslands next weekend for the Rope Up!
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So, this weekend was my birthday and some friends decided to take a keg out there on Saturday night. We climbed hard all day Saturday and returned to the grasslands (Skull Hollow) after the Duck game for a small gathering of 12 or so people, no fire, to drink a few beers and enjoy our surroundings. Skull Hollow was unseasonably bare with only about a handfull of parties in the campground. Long story short, a group of all female climbers that were about 60 yards away called the cops and the sherriff showed up at Skull Hollow around 1am. The next morning, the all women group was kicking rocks on us as they walked to the bathroom to try and wake us up, which most of us already were up and out of the campground and climbing before they even had breakfast going. We were not some group of young punk gym rats we were twenty and thirty-somethings celebrating a birthday with conversation , a little beer, and soft music (not blaring by any means).
Anyways, what is the proper etiquette for Skull Hollow? It is public and free and a lot of climbers are there. Almost every weekend I have been there in the last 6 years I lived in Oregon, there has been noise, etc. I expect that there will always be a few people partying. Were we in the wrong to have such a small gathering, are times changing, or should I have just told them to shove it. If you want to whine maybe you should stay at the bivy site? I warned them that if they thought we were a problem, don't even think about coming back next weekend. Also this was the second weekend in a row I saw the sherriff at Skull Hollow, but last weekend they were busting a highschoolers party and a highspeed chace ensued up the canyon.
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Someone talk him into going out to the Rope Up and climbing in Leavenworth with y'all! He and his wife are really nice folks and are really laid back folks. I ran into them on Orizaba two years ago and on Denali last year. Should be a stellar slide show at the least!
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I agree with Greg that W appeals to the common man more so than Kerry, but after thinking about it last night, I am notso sure I want to settle for a common man in the White House. It takes a special person to hold that office and to command respsct and provide leadership. Most common men do not possess this quality. I do not want my buddies running this country. I want someone qualified. The other reason I am now leaning more towards Kerry is that while the Iraq situation was supposed to be Bush's strong point, and he showed us last night that it might not be and Kerry hung with him, I am really being pulled to the Left with Bush's take on the environment and what is going on within our borders at home. The next two debates should be interesting as those are supposed to be Kerry's strong suits. On another note, any idea why Cheney declined a post interview with major networks when John Edwards came on?
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RBW is correct. Not on tribal lands. Shapp - S. Fossil Unit.
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Shapp I was on that road up to Hwy 218 on Saturday as I am hunting elk over there this year. It was hard to see alot with a big burn going on the Pine Creek COnservation Area, but I could see promise. Along the Deschutes, near a tributary stream there are some amazing splitter cracks. Hint: downstream from Warm Springs town and you can't get there from the warm springs Kaneeta Resort side. Hence why it is close to Madras. If any of you are trout fishermen, then you already know the answer.
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That should only take people a few years, with the reservation being several hundred thousand acres not including the seeded territories!I think it may be near the warmsprings reservation. -
Alex,
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Dru! That was Classic!!!!!
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Mods, before this spray falls into oblivion and everyone is onto talking Freshiez, ice, and who they think will win the presidential debates on Thursday, why was Bone banned for a comment/s that Cavey made? I want only mods. to respond. That is what the quote said. That cavey made a response and that Bone was banned for it. Just looking for justification. Oh and PMs are open game, even under RBW's poor etiquette clause.
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RBW, I don't disagree that it was bad etiquette. I acknowledge it is. But I just thought it funny that out of all of this, you will call out one post out of the 7 pages of "bad etiquette" that this discussion is based. The whole situation fails the smell test. I'm not justifying, just find your selection of what is and is not poor etiquette, well, funny.
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Badhairdoo,
I did not say I would get in anyone's face, confronting someone and trying to intimidate them through threats are two totally different things. I would most definately confront someone about taking away access to something if for no justified reason. Bone did nothing wrong. I won't state the same for Cavey and Gottermurung, but the mods. statements are clear. Spray is spray, which is why i rarely even look in this category. I think Spary should not be held to the same scrutiny as other sections. I am on this site mainly for beta, access, news, etc. I am sorry if I have a problem with trying to regulate some pretty amazing discussions. Sometimes they take a wrong turn, but in the end I hope that most people take a little something away by seeing things from others perspectives, thinking outside the box, etc. Unfortunately some folks are too narrow minded/closed-minded to do this. Hence they live in their bubble and come off like idiots most of the time. A community is made up of different people, etc. It is what allows you Badvoodoo, to have funny hair painted different colors and still be accepted. I think it is funny, but there are people out thee who think it is hot, cool, whatever. Same goes for differing opinions. If this board were all filled with the same 5.8 climbers, who thought the same, looked the same, all from similar backgrounds, all with similar opinions, then this site would be boring. You need outliers to push buttons and force others to get out of the box. O.K. there is my spray for 2004.
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RBW, Poor etiquette? Are you serious? After this entire Spray, you're gonna call me out for poor etiquette? I think that this entire situation is based upon that foundation. Just calling the kettle black. And as for Alex. I now know who the banned Bone, but I think they should explain it.
I rarely even look at Spray, but this is getting obsurd. C'mon guys. seriously. Jon straighten these jokers out!
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The REAL skinny: Direct quotes from a moderator (nameless) to Bone:
Emailed to me by one of the Moderators:
"I think you should have been banned during your hate spree a week or two ago. Probably lots of mods agreed with that. It just took a catalyst (Caveman spewing threats) for anyone to actually push the button. Consider it a delayed response."
"If it was up to me (if it was my website) you would have been banned earlier. Caveman was not the reason you were banned. I think the sentiment was there already. Caveman's outburst just ended your holiday."
Apparently I was banned because Caveman threatened people...go figure...
Bone
This is total BS. I wish I know who wrote this and then I'd like to confront them at the Rope Up this coming weekend. Not in Gottermurung way, but a justification is definatley required with these comments. -
Minx I thought you were leaving?
"You think she's gone? She's never gone!........SEE!!!"
(taken and fenagled from What ABout Bob?)
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How about give them a little more. It is near a stream near Madras! And id memory serves me it is more like 85 ft. high.
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Climbed at Smiff and Brook Sandahl's private ranch.
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Minx, Get off your power trip and quit posting stupid shit that no one cares about. You are supposed to be a moderator so you STFU and moderate. This does not mean posting 10 times in a spray category, it means to moderate. You read and edit or ban if need be, but quit posting. That is not your job if you are true moderator. That goes for the rest of you. I think if you are moderator you do not have the power to post your worthless bile unless you need to get out information, which MattP does very well at. Minx, get outside and actually climb for a change. Maybe it will bring you back to reality, instead of acting like some bitch cop with a power complex.
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Fishing license money actually goes to the hatcheries to raise more fish so that you can actually be out there fishing. Hunting licenses go to monitoring hunts, scientific studies on population trends of specific game species, and habitat improvement and controlled burns for game species. Unlike the Fee Demo program, my license dollars go back to what I am using the license for.
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See this article below. Seems like the fee demo is extended through 2006 and a big push is out to make it permanent. Sorry I do not have a link as it came to me via Word.
Update for Thursday
September 23, 2004
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1 PUBLIC LANDS PRINT THIS STORY
House committee OKs Interior, Forest Service recreation fee authority
Dan Berman, Land Letter reporter
Tired of watching congressional appropriators reauthorize the controversial fee demonstration program, the House Resources Committee yesterday approved a bill to establish permanent authority for the federal government to charge fees on National Park Service, Fish and Wildlife Service, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation and Forest Service lands.
After token opposition, the committee passed the bill by Rep. Ralph Regula (R-Ohio) by voice vote, sending it to the House floor for consideration.
Interior agencies and the Forest Service are currently operating under the fee demo program established via a Regula rider to the fiscal year 1996 Interior appropriations bill. The program has been a cash cow for the departments -- Interior expects to collect $138 million from the fee demo in fiscal year 2005, mostly from the Park Service, while the Forest Service expects to collect $46 million, according to the administration budget requests.
Since its creation, Congress has reauthorized fee demo several times, most recently as a rider in the fiscal year 2004 Interior appropriations bill. Fee demo is now authorized through Jan. 1, 2006. House Resources Committee Chairman Richard Pombo (R-Calif.) had pledged to the House Appropriations Committee that his committee would pass a bill dealing with the issue to avoid similar fee demo reauthorizations in the future.
Implementation of the fee demo program has been controversial from its outset, as opponents charge the program has been haphazardly and unfairly implemented and claim it is wrong for the federal government to collect user fees for access to public lands already funded with taxpayer dollars.
Amendment sets standards for fees
Pombo sought to address those issues via a substitute amendment that would provide strict guidelines on when fees are appropriate and establish fee levels.
Under the amended bill, the Forest Service and BLM would not be allowed to charge solely for parking, scenic pullouts or other non-developed areas. The Park Service and FWS would be allowed to continue to charge entrance fees.
"This section may be seen as overly prescriptive, but the details were necessary and should alleviate concerns of those members who may no longer trust certain federal land management agencies with rec fee authority," Pombo said.
Many Western Republicans were upset after it was discovered BLM had used nearly $1 million in fees collected in California's Imperial Sand Dunes Recreation Area to study the threatened Peirson's milk-vetch. Off-road vehicle groups have been fighting BLM over access to areas in the recreation area and say the studies funded by user fees as high as $90 are being used to close lands to ORV users.
And a 2003 Government Accountability Office report said the fee demo program has allowed the Forest Service to improve visitor services and protect resources, but the agency could do a better job of accounting for how the money is spent (Land Letter, May 29, 2003).
In June, the House attached an amendment to the fiscal year 2005 Interior spending bill prohibiting the use of funds collected under the recreation fee demonstration program for monitoring studies of endangered and threatened species (E&E Daily, June 17).
Robert Funkhouser, president of the Western Slope No-Fee Coalition, said the language in the amended bill was extremely disappointing. "The premise of basic fees that is embraced by this bill and the actual wording allowing over-broad implementation is a real disappointment to the user public and those who live in rural communities," Funkhouser said.
Pombo's amendment would also provide for public input by creating Recreation Advisory Committees to make recommendations to the agencies regarding the establishment, elimination or change of any fee, and would limit the authorization for the fee demo program to 10 years. "This will put an end to fears that federal land managers cannot be trusted with recreational fee authority because we lay out very specific circumstances under which these fees can be collected and spent," Pombo said of his amendment.
That argument did not sit well with ranking member Nick Rahall (D-W.Va.), who said fee demo is an "experiment gone awry," leaving visitors "frustrated, confused and angered over being charged to use resources they already own."
Rahall also said he was unsatisfied with the new language. "Reading this legislation is just like reading the tax code: five agencies, four different types of fees, 20 different classes of exemptions, three different types of passes and more than 50 resource councils to help sort it all out," he said.
However, noting that Regula -- a formidable presence on the House Appropriations Committee -- was watching the proceedings from the front row of the audience, Rahall declined to call for a roll call vote.
Funkhouser blasted the committee for acquiescing to Regula's presence in the room. "It's one man's land at this point," Funkhouser said. "Whatever this man wants, the rest of us will have to swallow."
The future of fee demo
Another avid fee opponent, Scott Silver of Wild Wilderness, said despite yesterday's action, it is unlikely a fee authorization bill will be completed soon.
In May, the Senate passed legislation that would extend the fee demo program for the Park Service while allowing the fee collection authority for the other agencies to expire at the end of 2005, and some senators have been outspoken on their opposition to expanding the fee program.
At an oversight hearing in April, Senate Forests Subcommittee Chairman Larry Craig (R-Idaho) said he would oppose a basic entrance fee to Interior and Forest Service public lands. "I want all to know that I will not support a basic entrance fee ... whether or not it is called an entrance fee or basic fee or by any other name," Craig said. "These are public lands, and they should remain open to the public."
Craig said he is open to discussing collection of fees at specific recreation sites such as a lake or campground where an agency has developed amenities and improvements for visitors. But he remains opposed to entry fees like those for some national parks. "We are not going to start treating the Forest Service, BLM and wildlife refuges as if they were national parks," Craig said (E&E Daily, April 22).
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I hope TJD doesn't tudor his sons in English!!!!
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I will rat out anyone trying to take my rights as a climber away, including using a power drill in the wilderness area. If they acted like jerks after I spoke to them, and they continued knowing that they could have a detrimental affect to my access to climb there, then I see no difference between me ratting them out and they being so selfish towrads the rights of other climbers that their project is more important to all climbing access. We may not like the rules placed with power drilling in a wilderness area, but it is still the law.
Off White, all of your exaples you use about tattling would have no direct effect on me being able to participate in that particular activity, unlike a climber power drilling in a wilderness area. Screw 'em!
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Catbird, you are a little off. A 2- stroke engine emits 15 times more pollution than a standard car. However, in looking at these latest numbers (720 biles/day), using several assumptions and several facts:
The park receives on average around 2.9 million people per year. Of these there is the potential for 648,000 snow machines per year to visit the park (3 months at 720 biles/day -it is actually a little longer than 3 months, but it still shows the point). Assuming that there are approx. 3 people per vehicle, (take into account all those tour buses too! And after working there for three years, it is not too far off.) you have around 750,666 cars per year. Factoring in the amount of pollution (15x) you can clearly see that 720 2-stroke snowmobiles per day will cause a great deal more air pollution than cars per year.
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Stubai does make an extended bar for their aluminum crampons. Call Mike at Backcountry Gear. He may have some in stock.
Poll: Making noise at the Grasslands
in Climber's Board
Posted
No, this was a group of middle-aged women from Seattle and Portland. They asked us Saturday morning if we were going to have a big party after they saw the keg next to our white van and they would move. I told them it was up to them, that we had 12 people who would be there and if they wanted to come over and join us, they were more than welcome. When we got back from the Brewery in Redmond after the game (around 10pm.) There was only about 6 of us. No groups were directly next to us and the closest group was the Silk NOLS touring bus. About 10 minutes later, one of the women from the group came over and said that this was a party. I told her that it was half the number I had indicated to her earlier that morning and she stormed off. Six more folkd showed up and we had beers for another 45 minutes. It was mellow, standing around in a circle with the keg in the middle (it was an almost finished keg when we brought it to Smith) and she came back again to tell us that she "heard" some "hunters" had called the cops. Being that it was late and that they were camped off alone around no one else, I doubt they were having conversations with hunters. Anyways, I offered her a beer and we promised to keep it down. I realize voices carry out there. The elk were screaming all night! I even offered to change music, which sounded low when sitting in the car, let alone with windows down, but I didn't have any Ani DeFranko. She made some snide comment that she was sorry that she didn't party like a bunch of us underaged 20 year olds. That comment was totally out of line and almost made me make some other comments about a bunch of middle-aged women hanging out in the dessert, but I bit my tongue.
Anyways, I am feeling like this was a unique situation as I do not think many of the women even climbed. I saw them hiking around on Saturday, but who knows.