ryland_moore
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Posts posted by ryland_moore
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Emmons Glacier, Mt. Rainier
Headed up for a climb of the Emmons after a solid rec. from Mike on climbing Rainier from this side in August. Went with Desk Jockey, his 14 year-old son, and a sport climbing friend of mine from Redmond.
Day 1: Headed up to Sherman via a different approach than I've ever taken. Because the Inter glacier is in such poor condition and the rangers have had to evac several folks off in the last week, we were strongly urged to go to Glacier Basin, then cross White River and head up switchbacks around Mt. Ruth and take a dirt and scree trail up to Curtis Ridge. Also, because the descent down onto the Emmons from Curtis Ridge is so dangerous, we were told to climb up and over the Prow! Last time I did that, I got yelled at by rangers who called it a death trap!
Once in Sherman we talked to two guys who came up over Curtis and used the Emmons to get to camp. They both said that it was the scariest thing they've ever done and that they thought they were almost going to fall off the traverse several times. Looking at it, you can see where the descent turns really steep (an area usually covered by snow earlier in the year) and since there are no rocks to hold onto, you are clawing at scree and dirt.
Day 2: Hung out in camp and waited for friend from Redmond to show up who hiked in that day.
Day 3: We left for the summit around 12:20 pm. The glacier is most broken up right out of camp on the way to the Flats. The corridor is in amazing condition with styrofoam cramponing all the way up. The route takes a long traverse over to the Winthrop Glacier crossing several crevasses (nothing more than large steps) and a few snow bridges that may collapse soon, but you can just go a little further out and cross them in a new area.
The route brings you to the saddle between the summit and Liberty Cap, then heads up to the summit. Summitted at 7:30 am. Not too fast, but just right.
Some of the best conditions I've seen on the Emmons ever, were one of two parties on the route, and all in all an amazing trip. Only tough thing was not being able to glissade the Inter glacier and hiking the dusty and scree-filled trail back to glacier basin.
The area looks so different than when I've been up there in the past in May and June. The weather was stellar and good climbing with friends. Hope to post pics soon.
p.s. for the mountaineers who had the fall a few weeks back, we saw your stuff getting flown off by helicopter so it should return to you in the near future.
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Semore,
Actually, listening to you over several threads, it seems like you don't have that much experience yourself. I am not "ripping you a new one" and it is always good to be over- rather than under-cautious, but asking if people ever bring crampons without an ice axe leads me to believe you haven't done much alpine climbing and that you stick to glacier slogs. What about the traverse over to Triumph for the NE Ridge? What about the traverse to the upper N. Ridge of Stuart? What about heading up to Sahale Peak up the dog route? S. Side of Adams? I would take a whippet on all of these climbs with aluminum crampons and never think of taking an axe unless it seemed like really icy conditions.
Also, regarding your poll, there is not category for me as I climbed in the Tetons, Winds, and S. America on big volcanoes before ever setting foot in the PacNW, yet I had not done 100s of glacier or alpine climbs and still would never consider myself a "jedi". I would assume there are many other "transplants" out there with a similar experience to me.
I think you need to relax a little and be less concerned with others and more concerned with yourself. It is good to play devil's advocate and represent someone's good conscience from time to time, but every time you post, you are passing judgement on someone else's ability. Yeah, so you had a bad experience on Rainier. I've had them too on Hood with crowds. I even wrote an article about it in CLimbing Rag one time, but have changed my tune and pretty much looked after myself and my well-being. Is it truly your responsibility to tell everyone who has less ability than you what they are doing wrong? I used to think so, but now I don't anymore. They have just as much of a right to be there as you, regardless of skill, and they are responsible for taking on the inherent dangers that are involved in climbing. You also have to take those on, but just make sure that your worrying about someone else doesn't distract from your own ability to keep you and your partners safe.
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Ogre, 30m should be fine for two people. As long as you don't need to pitch anything outthat is serious and carry enough of a coil between the two of you, you should be fine. I use a 30m 8mm rope. That being said, you better be able to arrest fairly quickly as it is just a party of two. I wouldn't leave any slack in the line, but a 30m rope should be plenty. Just put 40 feet between you and each carry 30 ft. of coil.
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Not yet. Planning on getting in a late afternoon climb next Monday though.
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Shapp, the area you speak of for 2 pitch climbs is th Dihedrals. Also, I believe TG and Carsten got on House's route. Not sure if they ever finished the crux 5.10+ roof or not. I'll be out there on the 25th and August 1st for work, so I'll ask about other places if he doesn't respond. I talked to TG yesterday amd said he has been really busy with work and the new addition to the brewery.
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I placed pickets (1) in this section twice when it was steep but found patches of firm snow to get one in (not all the way and tied off) and once with an ice screw in the night on the way up (17cm). No idea if it would have held but may provide enough of a grab to take some of the pull off the rest of a team in case of a fall.
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Dru,
I think you are missing the point. Using your example, a coal company over pollutes (ie. exceeds its quota by a factor of 2) while another coal company sees a windfall by selling pollution credits because they produced less pollution (also by a factor of 2). All you have done is maintained the same level of pollution and not reduced anything. You have not gained more pollution, but you have also not reduced pollution from what was originally allowed by the EPA. Using the SUV, there is no quota on them, but you are still not reducing the amount of pollution with more SUVs on the road daily, but you may encourage more SUV driving to occur or to be justified, relating in no net loss of CO2 emissions. The only way this system could really work is to penalize those companies who pollute by setting up a system that works similar to this. For every company that exceeds its pollution quota by a factor of 1, it must purchase 10 factors (used only as an example) worth of pollution credits, so that the net result is a reduction in emissions. The question would remain whether or not there would be enough credits available to meet the needs of the over-polluters.
On the other side of the coin, those that reduce their pollution by x number of factors can only sell each factor at face value (ie. no incentives other than the credit payment for reduction in pollution).
The govt. has used this method with some slight success for wetlands mitigation, where for every acre of wetland destroyed you must permanently protect four acres, however, there is still a net loss in acres of wetlands overall.
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knelson,
Agreed. I've actually placed pro to do a running belay on that section several times over the last several years. Sorry, didn't read the article closely enough to see that was the issue and that they were that high up. Glad they were able to arrest on that section!!!
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Mike or others in the know, what route were they on? Emmons? Also, if it is that late in the day, sounds like the slip may have occurred from snow balling rather than ice, but that is just a guess being that late in the afternoon. I guess the climber could have been tired and tripped just as well. As for aluminum crampons, how did this even get brought up? I didn't see the article mention they were wearing aluminum crampons. Anyone wanna fill in the blanks? Glad they made it off o.k.
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This seems very similar to the wetlands mitigation banking system here in the US. Protect wetlands in one place so that they can be developed in other places. There is no net gain in wetlands, but they are depleted.
That being said, it does seem to be a good concept, just that it will be interesting to see if it has any real effect. I mean, big polluters purchasing mitigation credits from those that do not exceed emissions standards does not necessarily make the world a cleaner place and does not necessarily reduce CO2 emissions, nor reduce the effect of global warming. It only allows there to be continued pollution. The point is to reduce CO2 pollution and mitigation projects do not necessarily accomplish this feat.
To truly reduce CO2, I feel that the only way is to set standards and goals similar to the Kyoto agreement if not the exact same, and actually make everyone reduce. I am skeptical that this program or others would actually accomplish that feat without fines and restrictions in place to punish those that do not meet these requirements. With the G8 summit occurring, and global warming a hot topic right now, the NY Times released an article on July 3rd showing that Portland has accomplished exactly what President Bush has stated would be too costly for the US economy, by reducing CO2 emissions to below 1990 level.
NY Times article below (It was not free so I am posting it here. Sorry for taking up so much space.)
A Livable Shade of Green
Nicholas D. Kristof
July 3, 2005
PORTLAND, Ore. When President Bush travels to the Group of 8 summit meeting this week, he'll stiff Tony Blair and other leaders who are appealing for firm action on global warming.
"Kyoto would have wrecked our economy," Mr. Bush told a Danish interviewer recently, referring to the accord to curb carbon emissions. Maybe that was a plausible argument a few years ago, but now the city of Portland is proving it flat wrong.
Newly released data show that Portland, America's environmental laboratory, has achieved stunning reductions in carbon emissions. It has reduced emissions below the levels of 1990, the benchmark for the Kyoto accord, while booming economically.
What's more, officials in Portland insist that the campaign to cut carbon emissions has entailed no significant economic price, and on the contrary has brought the city huge benefits: less tax money spent on energy, more convenient transportation, a greener city, and expertise in energy efficiency that is helping local businesses win contracts worldwide.
"People have looked at it the wrong way, as a drain," said Mayor Tom Potter, who himself drives a Prius hybrid. "Actually it's something that attracts people. It's economical; it makes sense in dollars."
I've been torn about what to do about global warming. But the evidence is growing that climate change is a real threat: I was bowled over when I visited the Arctic and talked to Eskimos who described sea ice disappearing, permafrost melting and visits by robins, for which they have no word in the local language.
In the past, economic models tended to discourage aggressive action on greenhouse gases, because they indicated that the cost of curbing carbon emissions could be extraordinarily high, amounting to perhaps 3 percent of G.N.P.
That's where Portland's experience is so crucial. It confirms the suggestions of some economists that we can take initial steps against global warming without economic disruptions. Then in a decade or two, we can decide whether to proceed with other, costlier steps.
In 1993, Portland became the first local government in the United States to adopt a strategy to deal with climate change. The latest data, released a few weeks ago, show the results: Greenhouse gas emissions last year in Multnomah County, which includes Portland, dropped below the level of 1990, and per capita emissions were down 13 percent.
This was achieved partly by a major increase in public transit, including two light rail lines and a streetcar system. The city has also built 750 miles of bicycle paths, and the number of people commuting by foot or on bicycle has increased 10 percent.
Portland offers all city employees either a $25-per-month bus pass or car pool parking. Private businesses are told that if they provide employees with subsidized parking, they should also subsidize bus commutes.
The city has also offered financial incentives and technical assistance to anyone constructing a "green building" with built-in energy efficiency.
Then there are innumerable little steps, such as encouraging people to weatherize their homes. Portland also replaced the bulbs in the city's traffic lights with light-emitting diodes, which reduce electricity use by 80 percent and save the city almost $500,000 a year.
"Portland's efforts refute the thesis that you can't make progress without huge economic harm," says Erik Sten, a city commissioner. "It actually goes all the other way -- to the extent Portland has been successful, the things that we were doing that happened to reduce emissions were the things that made our city livable and hence desirable."
Mr. Sten added that Portland's officials were able to curb carbon emissions only because the steps they took were intrinsically popular and cheap, serving other purposes like reducing traffic congestion or saving on electrical costs. "I haven't seen that much willingness even among our environmentalists," he said, "to do huge masochistic things to save the planet."
So as he heads to the summit meeting, Mr. Bush should get a briefing on Portland's experience (a full report is at www.sustainableportland.org) and accept that we don't need to surrender to global warming.
Perhaps eventually we will face hard trade-offs. But for now Portland shows that we can help our planet without "wrecking" our economy -- indeed, at no significant cost at all. At the Group of 8, that should be a no-brainer.
Only when we sign on to the Kyoto agreement will a reduction in CO2 occur and as the NY Times points out, Portland seems to be the only city in the U.S. who is doing this successfully.
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I think the hardest thing to do is not necessarily arresting the fall, but setting the anchor while in arrest position. You will have to get out your picket, set a deadman and transfer the weight from your harness to a prussik on the rope. If you've never done this before, you will need to learn. Remember that time is everything when someone is down in the hole and injured. Hypothermia can set in quite rapidly if you are unable to extract your partner in a reasonable time (assuming he/she is unable to extract themselves by prussiking back up. Also, I have heard, but never visually observed, people tying butterfly knots every few feet in the rope when travelling in a two man rope team. The theory is that when one partner goes in, the knots will catch in the snow on the lip of the crevasse and reduce or prevent your partner from going further in. This of course would only theoretically work if the glacier was not dry. In August, this may be a moot point.
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Anyone done the Emmons route in August? I've been on the route plenty of times but only in April, May, and June. Is the glacier typically a dry glacier? Tough crevasse negotiating? Icy? Or is it better to do the DC this time of year? WHat's Interglacier like? Every time I've been on it there were no crevasses visible. Thanks for any general info.
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Ptarmigan Traverse. Nothing else needed to say.....
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Are any of those even boobies? I know the first one is a frgate bird and the last is an albatross. At least put some real boobies in there!
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Depends on when you want to go, but the Elliot Glacier on Mt. Hood is awesome for ice bouldering, lowering down into crevasses and practicing crevasse rescue. It opens up a little more later in the summer and is usually dry by August/September.
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I climbed it in January 1999. Getting onto the route was a bit dicey, but after that, it was straight going. I have heard that it has melted out considerably. I would call the local guides down there, but if you are going with an expeirenced climbing partner, then it is no more difficult than doing the FInger on Rainier. When I was down there it was more like the Emmons with less crevasses and higher altitude. Acclimating will be more difficult. Acclimate on other volcanoes like El Cayambe and Cotapaxi, then stay at the lower hut and move up to the upper hut. There is also an amazing estancia built back in the 1700s that you can stay at for around $15, but then again I was there when the revolt occurred and they switched to American $ and shut down all of Quito. One of my fraternity brothers owns a hostel and internet cafe there in New Town Quito called The Magic Bean. Cool place to stay when in QUito with a lot of trekkers and internet cafes......Also, after climbed Chimbo, head to the town of Banos for some soaking in the hot springs. Just outside of town, there is a bridge (near the zoo I think) across a dep canyon. Just on the other side is a little farm. You can pay the farmer 50 cents to let you hike down across his property to some awesome sport climbing down in this deep gorge. Crazy basalt (no cracks) and quartzite in the area with a raging river cutting just to the right of you.
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Don't forget that Erik (previous mod here) and his partner did the complete N. Ridge car to car in a day (a Loooong day!), so the complete N. Ridge is doable in two days for sure.
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I am assuming the fall occurred on the way down???? Might be the first fatality on this route if it were on the way up. Anyone have more details? My thoughts and prayers are with the family and friends....
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Anyone know any more details?????
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Great pic of Anabelle dropping the kids off at the ice rink!
As for sleds, do not buy a $500 sled. I built mine for $50 and it works awesome. I took it to Denali and even attached a Back Off Yosemite Sam mudflap attached to the back. It was a long orange kiddy sled. I took aluminum 1/2" conduit poles and used a bar bender to bend them at the end. I drilled a hole on each side of the front of the sled for the aluminum stays to slide into. Then I attached the two ends of the 1/2" poles by sliding them into a 9" piece of 3/4" aluminum. I drilled two holes for each side and bolted it on. Then for the straps up and down the sled, I just drilled holes in the side and attached buckles on 1" webbing. The poles going up to my harness were fixed w/ biners and wrapped with wire and duct tape to hold them to the poles. I did not have a single problem skiing down with it, even when fully loaded after we summitted and headed down ski hill. It tracked well. I'll post pics soon.
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Yeah, we heard about this before heading up there, so we just put little bottles of hand sanitizer around. In the butt tape bag, in the pots bag, in my bowl and spoon bag, and it seemed to work. It's not like you could ever really wash your hands while you are up there, so the study does make sense. We also didn't eat that much freeze-dried stuff though, until we went above 14k. We also went earlier in the season when there were not as many climbers on the mountain, so that may also have had an effect on our results...
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If you could do either, I'd say do the ID as it is more aesthetic..... I'd actually scrap both of them and do the Emmons for a better glacier experience. It is easier, I think than DC or ID and is the largest glacier in the lower 48.
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wfinley, well said. Sure "dog routes" will attract a lot of people, but if you go earlier in the year , like we did, the crowds are no worse than Rainier on the EMmons for a weekend. Boring? Being in one of the most beautiful ranges in the world boring? Maybe I have a different perspective, but I've climbed in Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Chile, Argentina, and Mexico, not to mention all over the western U.S. and find that the Alaska Range is by far the most beautiful I have had the pleasure to be in by FAR!!!!!! So, if you think this image is boring, then maybe you should stick to your local crags and leave the Alaska Range to me and my friends. Sounds more like sour grapes that you didn't summit so you have to make yourself feel better by putting it down as not that big a deal. I had an awesome experience with good friends, up and down in 15 days and stellar weather. Also, maybe if you slowed down a little and took some time to acclimate and enjoy your surroundings, you'd have a different perspective........Boring? Let cc.com be the judge!
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I guess nobody has ever accused climbers of being good spellars (Muffy), but if you are going to talk about a climber as your friend you should at least spell his name right as it is Shipoopi and Schneider.......
8mm 30 m rope limits?
in Newbies
Posted
That is the rope I use on all glacier climbs in the NW as long as the route does not require multiple pitches or serious rock. I would not want to take a huge leader fall on this rope alpine climbing, but a glacier fall for sure. It is not really long enough for alpine climbing though, and it may be tough to catch someone using an ATC becasue of how thin the rope is. I just use mine for no more than a team of 3 on glacier slogs in the NW.