Retrosaurus

No elbowing. We were there first. But three Frenchie mtn guides from Chamonix were on the way up when we were going down. Nice guys, but apparently unaware of accepatable North American sanitation practices, having left us a gift of two papered piles of excrement on the parkway beside our car. A breach of etiquette that I was unable to fully appreciate until one of our party stepped squarely in it.

Yeah, right. Those bolts sure made that tower safer. I'm suprised that some lemming was not lashed to one of them as the tower crashed. Clearly it was more dangerous with bolts than without them.

When Yoder bolted that climb I told him what a dipshit he was because it was so unstable. At that time you could sit on the edge of the cliff and put your feet against the column and rock it about a half an inch. As much traffic as it has seen, I am really suprised that no one rode that baby to their death. Sport climbers are lemmings.

An eight month road trip after completing a commercial fishing contract. Bought a cadillac and cruised around and climbed and skied all over the western US.

Belay gloves are cool cuz they are one more thing you can put into your pack and carry around to help you feel more like a climber. More stuff. More stuff. MORE STUFF!!! More stuff is more gooder.

Ice? ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! Yeah right, maybe in a soft drink from the mini-mart.

quote: Originally posted by ivan: fuk'em ...what's he climbed lately? last time i checked i was climbing for fun too... quote: Originally posted by vegetablebelay: Right on. He sounds like every other 80 year old complaining about "kids these days".... Sounds like every other kid these days complaining about 80-year old hardmen.

I've got a dog that doesn't bark (unless there is a real issue, and then if I tell her to shut up, she does.) She doesn't mooch. Feed them only from their bowl and do not allow others to feed them at all. When I get to the top of a crag, she shows up there too. Doesn't have a anxiety attack when I leave the ground. Can get up and down any 3rd class ground on her own, (especially if she has to to get to her frisbee.) I can't throw her frisbee off cliffs though. The last time I did, she took a 20 foot grounder and brought the damned thing back up. I don't bring her when I expect a lot of people to be around because she wants to be everyone's pal, and I get worried that she will jump in their rig and go home with them. I think that a good dog comes down to two points. The breed. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Some breeds are fucking obnoxious, stupid, anxious, etc. Consistency. Just like kids, if you don't tolerate bad behavior, they won't make a habit of it. When they jump up on you, step on their back feet. They quit.

quote: Originally posted by Winter: BAHHH! Who cares? You can climb sandstone in the rain ... or snow. Looks like it'll be dry by Sunday and I'm there through Tuesday night. You can, but the stone is weaker and holds tend to break off, especially those cool incuts behind the varnished plates. Water pools in the incuts and really weakens the stone a lot. But if you are selfish enough to destroy routes, have at it. Maybe you should take a chisel so you can carve new holds where you snap off the original ones.

quote: Originally posted by JayB: Agreed. Top-roping is enjoyable, and a good way to build the necessary skills, but when you lead ice you're playing a very different game. Once someone has lead a pitch or two of ice at the boundaries of their skills, strength, and confidence their perception of the activity seems to change dramatically. At least that's what I noticed when my friends and I took it up. I had led 5 pitches of waterfall ice before I had the luxury of following or top-roping ice. Although,I can't reccommend this approach, the learning curve is very steep. It has always been scary. Not quite sure why I am still alive. quote: Anyone else recall what they felt and or any changes in their perception of ice climbing after their first stiff lead?Hopeless, full-on addiction.

I am gettin' hungry for love. All this talk of rightous bolt removal is makin' me horny. Of course, none of the sinners are goin' to speak up and claim their prize.

quote: Originally posted by mattp: Agreed. Can we now? I know it isn't noon yet, but it IS friday. You betcha.

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: ["fear, doubt, apprehension, misgivings, etc." Hey these are all aspects of dating me! PM your number and tonight will be a wonderful climbing trip! Oh peter the arrogant, Clearly my ego pales in comparison to yours. I could not begin to carry anything so immense around 24-7 as you do. Oh yeah, we did pass a party of 3 on the crux pitch of OuterSpace. It went smoothly and politely. There was no friction. Now, how they felt about being passed by an old fat guy and a pregnant woman.... That may be another matter. I never have had a confrontation at a crag though. If folks are bumbling along, that is way cool. I am still frequently do that.If they are being unsafe I usually just get the fuck lost to avoid bcoming involved in their rescue. People are most often not receptive to being educated by a total stranger. Especially if they are trying to impress a potential girlfriend . I'm just glad that Peter still hates me. Helps me realize that all is right with the world. If a pin-head like that decided I was OK ??? Now that would be a problem .

quote: Originally posted by mattp: ...people are going to be more likely to listen to you if you don't start off by telling them they can fuck off if they don't climb as well as you do or aren't willing to take the same risks as you do or whatever. That's funny. I don't think I started off like that. I usually have to work up to that. It is an interesting question, whether the real problem is how I say things or how you take it. Likely there is at least some of each going on. Agreed, sometimes the "smackem on the head" approach is not best. But that is why there are people around like you. You have a genuine gift as a statesman, that I do not care to try to develop. At least for on-line bullshit.

quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: That is what I was thought too. Everybody here is way too kiss each others ass sometimes. The hard realities are just glossed over all the time. Amen, Brutha. I am not a bad-ass, (just a shit-head). Nothing keeps you humble (and alive) like "The hard realities". All this political correctness gets in the way of the truth.

quote: Originally posted by COL. Von Spanker: What techniques do you use to protect when the ice gets that shitty/thin? 1)What often works best is really long slings. And I mean really long . Sling as much ice as you can. A)The fattest icicle. An entire free-standing column if you are on one. B)Poking a hole through a curtain and threading the sling and reaching around the edge of the curtain to grab it to form a complete loop. C)Punching two holes in a curtain and performing the same maneuver. (The wire hook for fishing out slings on a V-thread can be useful.) D) Slinging "mushrooms", usually improved ala bollard-style, and usually must be held in place with opposition or at least weighted. 2)Pitons pounded in to cracks at the edge of the ice or through it. (Normal rock gear also, of course.) 3)Tied-off screws in series. 4)A long screw, tied off at the center and inserted through a slot in the ice (most likely between two icicles) and then turned sideways. 5)Any of the above in combination/equalized. 6)Imagination. Creativity is the rule. I have used all of these at least once. Load-limiting runners help a lot with their psychological value. quote: Have you ever used one of those long spike lookin' things (pound in screw out) designed for frozen dirt and bad ice? Snargs? Yes. Warthogs? No. Ice hooks? Yes, but I don't like them. If you're talking about something else, I don't know.

quote: Originally posted by Retrosaurus: Water ice ain't water ice until it's vertical.... Yes, obviously a facetious remark. But the real message was: quote: ...Unless it is VERY thin or actively falling down, water ice requires very little in the way of skill or technique to succeed, and most will be able to bumble their way through it.Matt, Col Von to Spank the Monkey: Let's make a few reasonable assumptions about a climber new to Waterfall Ice climbing: 1) They are a rock climber with enough experience to safely arrange their own lead protection and belay anchors at the 5.9/5/10- level. 2) They have read and understood the appropriate texts on Waterfall Ice Climbing. Just how many days of instruction do you think it would take for this person to safely lead a WI3 waterfall? Answer: 1-2 days. In my book, this translates to "very little in the way of skill or technique". Any one with less that 1&2 should probable work at improving at technical rock before tackling Waterfall Ice. If you have a problem with my "tone", (which we all know is the real issue here,) maybe you need to work toward associating only with persons that are better at blowing sunshine up your ass.

quote: Originally posted by Lambone: I'd argue that steep ice takes little skill and technique to succede on. One can usually get by with balls and muscles... This is usually true of WI4 climbs, but unless you are uncommonly strong, this approach to a WI5 route may leave you with bones sticking out. quote: But skill and technique make it more fun, less tiering, and easier (less bashing) on the ice......and safer. quote: Putting screws in does'nt take much skill realy. We'll ok, so you have to know what a good spot looks like, but after that you just put the damn thing in and clip it. The rest is a mater of hanging on and not getting freaked out.True on fat WI5. But get on long, steep, bad ice, or WI6 where poorly consolidated ice is an accepted part of the game, and protection is not always a screw because sometimes there just is not enough solid ice to place it in and you must use other more creative techniques to protect the route. The game can become very deep. Now we're .

quote: Originally posted by Dru: I dont want to hear about your anyl fent. That's not me, that's Col Von Spankme. Something he learned in jail, I think.

quote: Originally posted by COL. Von Spanker: Does getting anal in jail count as losing my virginity? OK. I quit. I don't want to know any more.

quote: Originally posted by Dru: fenatyl = NY fetal Fentanyl, Dru. Fentanyl. F,E,N,T,A,N,Y L, FENTANYL.

quote: Originally posted by SEF: quote:Originally posted by Retrosaurus: No. The rumor was that The Mountaineers is really a dating service for people that drive Jeep Cherokees. Clearly a 1980's rumor. They drive Japanese SUV's now. I suppose that means my Chevy truck won't meet entrance requirements.

quote: Originally posted by COL. Von Spanker: You may be correct, but I say screw you to people who degrade my climbing skills and the level that I climb at because I don't/can't climb things as hard as they do. That's elitest... ...Maybe I am mireading what mithc is saying or something, but probably not. You assume too much. I did not degrade your climbing skills. I have never degraded someone's climbing skills. If they unnecessarily drill or something like that, yes. But not because they climb at 5.4 insteead of 5.12. You assume that "bumbling" is an insult. Wrong. Bumbling rocks. Bumbling is an integral part of learning. Bumbling through WI4, averting disaster through sheer force of will, is one of the most rewarding experiences that someone can experience. I did it. And it was fucking cool. I have bumbled my way through all sorts of stuff, and continue to. And I don't get all my weenie in a knot when someone says they enjoy climbing at higher standards, because they were once here and in the future I may be there. It must be really stressful being so thin-skinned and sensitive. Have you lost your virginity? Talk to Dru about it. He may be able to enlighten you.

quote: Originally posted by COL. Monkey Von Spanker: It's not rock climbing unless it's overhanging, until then it's not really rock... You be soundin' a bit like a sport climber.

quote: Originally posted by David Parker: ...Personally I don't know many people who can "bumble" up WI 4-5 and most of that isn't vertical. I think you are probably a great guy and would be fun to climb with, but you're sounding a little elitest for my taste. Senor Parker, What is the problem here? Is it poor reading comprehension, lack knowlege, or just plain stupidity? The way I understand it, WI4 has significant vertical sections long enough for most persons to want to place pro somewhere in the middle of it. It is these vertical sections that usually give waterfall routes their character, appeal and difficulty. Yes, People usually don't bumble their way up WI4&5 because of the vertical ice. But you knew that. (If you've just got an attitude and want to talk down on me you're going to have to do better.) BTW: WI4 is often way fun. I reccommend Murchison Falls. BTW II: New ice leaders frequently "bumble" their way up WI4. It looks like a desperate battle fueled by fear and adrenaline born of the desire to avoid compound fractures and death. At least that's the way it felt to me.