Retrosaurus

Hi Andy, I think you could probably aid your way through it without a lot of problems, although I have never really looked at it in this way. What I remember about the crux of the dihedral is that it kind of headwalls and you can't really tell if you should go over it at the right or the left. But the pro is quite reasonable at that point. Go for it. It is a really good route that is not climbed nearly as much as it should be. I'm sure the misinformation in the topos scares a lot of people off. When you feel real hard, try connecting with the first pitch of RPM, Psychopath (excellent!!) and Edge of Space. Mitch

"Bons A-ray!!"

Are you sure you don't mean the first pitch.

Andy, The topos that I have are in Kramar's book and they are wrong. There is a single bolt on the right hand wall of the dihedral where you exit onto the Outer Space shield and from there to the gnarled pine belay is runnout but about 5.2. The next pitch which ends on library ledge is not 10c face, does not have a lone bolt on it and is not run out. It follows a beautiful little 5.7 left-facing dihedral with a 2" crack in the back of it that leads directly to the left most end of library ledge. The two bolted pitches above between the last full pitch or Outer Space and Edge of Space are fun too. Mitch

I climbed that route back in the enlightened dark ages when it was called "Upper Dan's Dreadful Direct" and didn't have any bolts on it. It doesn't have a bolt missing, it has an extra bolt. How "key" can it be?

I just want to quickly recognize Paul Warner's excellent point that if the bolts on the route in question were placed only where necessary for PHYSICAL, not psychological protection I wouldn't likely get bent out of shape over it either. Mitch

With 20+ years of experience, I am not capable of naivete and this is not shameful boasting, but more akin to mournful greiving for a sport gone awry. It is a macho stance and climbing used to be a macho sport. It used to require courage. It is wonderful that W is one of the harder climbers you will be likely to meet. But climbing hard does not automatically merit respect. I will not object to the occasional bolt in the blank section of a pitch or even the occasional ladder in the middle of a grand otherwise natural line. But bolting as it is almost always practiced today is road building. It opens wild expances of stone to any gumby with $500 and a corresponding lack of respect for the medium. If your only tool is a hammer; every problem is a nail. And if your favorite toy is a drill; every problem is a bolt. 99% of today's access problems are completely attributable to two factors: 1) the top down approach and, 2) the power drill. I have skipped bolts; entire pitches of them. Pudding Time 5.11a on Frenchman Coulee's Middle East Wall is entirely bolted and I climbed it with a handful of stoppers. It protected just fine, was never run out and is not 5.11 either. I would have been justified in ripping out the whole pitch of bolts but I have learned that fragile egos of the first ascencionists often cannot handle this and the bolts grow back as 1/2 inchers. It is more productive to let their way-h**o pussy effort stand as is and to log my route over the top of it. Another time I was lucky enough to catch a rap bolted route in its early stages and climb it before it could be bolted. It had one bolt in it and the rest of the climb was marked for bolts. I didn't clip the bolt and I didn't rip it out either. The route is now called "Shrinking Ball Disease". And now this approach has found its way into one of our favorite alpine playgrounds. What do we value about Washington Pass climbing? I think most of us will agree that it is a stepping stone into the alpine environment. It is not a grand advdnture area. It is a small adventure area that most Washington climbers have used and continue to use to develop into real alpine climbers. The introduction of sport climbing will FOREVER take the spirit of adventure out of climbing there. I have a crowbar and a couple thousand feet of rope. Possibly I could contract with the Forest Service to restore the stone in an entirely legal not to mention profitable manner. Do the first ascencionists want to tell me why I should not? And just what is the problem with naming names? Are the first ascencionists not going to claim their prize? I have heard the word slander. Slander has to be FALSE and injurious. Let's get some truth out on the table. Mitch Merriman I don't consider my self a hardman, I just have a set of values and try to climb in a style that reflects them. [This message has been edited by Retrosaurus (edited 04-19-2001).]

quote: Originally posted by jblakley: Where can I get me some o' them super sticky hangers? Jim, If you want some of them "sticky hangers" you can: 1)Wait until they show up 2)Invent them yourself 3)F**k off the whole idea and f**k up the stone for all future climbers. Imagine climbing on Glacier Point Apron. rock that is sometimes so polished that your shoes squeak as if upon glass. Now imagine Foot-wide duct tape that is woven with kevlar ripstop fibers and in the center of this foot wide piece of adhesive fabric a runner is sewn. This is technology that could work right now. You could take a long skidder on a slab onto a removeable piece like this. There are also more malleable adhesives such as "combiderm" used in the medical field that would conform to crystaline irrregularities in the rock. It is really not that far fetched. It is just a matter of vision and time and money. Mitch

I take it that you have never done a face climb with traditional protection where nuts, cams and slings and your skill and creativity in their use along with your ability to keep your shit together when it gets hairy is what keeps you from decking. I would say you do not face climb at the level that the rock presents, you drill and install permanent fixtures until it is brought down to a level acceptable to you. How selfish and shortsighted. I suggest that you face climb on the rock's terms. It is only a matter of time until bolts are replaced with removeable protection capable of protecting blank expanses of stone; most likely in the form of super adhesives. When technology catches up with peoples' greed then today's bolt-ethic or lack of it will be seen for the blight that it is for permanently scarring an irreplaceable resource. Mitch

ABSOLUTELY!!!

The hallmark of a classic route (or lady/hooker etc) is how you answer this question: Would you do it again? Is it repeatable? (Without getting blind drunk first of course.) Mitch

Sorry Charlie, Galaxy(5.9) on Snow Creek Wall is a heap. Definitely not in the same class as Outerspace, Orbit, Mary Jane, etc. It is not sustained and the pro is not bad, but the rock is not the quality found elsewhere on the wall and there is not any good exposure as found on other more classic routes. I've done it once and will not do it again. Whereas I've done Outerspace maybe 30x and Orbit maybe 15, M.J.~5x, Iconoclast 5x. You can definitely spend your climbing time on something more worthwhile. Cascadian Couloir is a good ski and has been done many times. Mitch (Try skiing the sherpa glacier from the summit!) [This message has been edited by Retrosaurus (edited 04-18-2001).]

Borbonia: a kingdom of one!

Thank you Alex, for the insight and maturity that is so rare on this site. It is so tiresome being constantly overloaded with drivel.

dbb, I reccommend climbing Snake Dike in the true spirit of the valley. Wait for a full moon. Leisurely hike up to the base of the route and watch the sunset. Find a spot in a cave under a large overhanging boulder and build a very small fire as it gets dark. Dose yourself moderately with a pure hallucinogen. Wait for the moon to rise, take the reins and hold on for the ride. Try not to step on any of the dozens of hikers bivying on top when you summit. Oh yeah, the water is a good idea too. Postcard from another life, Retrosaurus

Bingo. (But if we get to guess, Curt is from Colorado. I have heard many egocentric comments like this from Colorado climbers.)

I will never pay user fees. I would rather pay the fine if and when I get caught.

dbb, About 20 years ago on my first forray onto Snow Creek Wall, we climbed a route called White Slabs. On the route there is a bush at one of the belays. My partner, Darin led this pitch and when I arrived at the belay, he says "Look at this." He gave the bush a shake and ticks rained off of it like morning dew. After the climb I found ticks in all the usual places: scalp (especially the nape of the neck), armpits, waistline, socks, as well as a couple of places where we don't go in public. I have often found ticks in my gear after climbing in "Tick Country". If I were you I would unpack the gear on a slab outside and give each piece a thorough once-over. Have fun, Mitch

Good move Tim. Thanks, Mitch

Chepe, I don't know who Who Cares is. I just want a front row seat at the !!BATTLE CAGE!!! Close enough to get spit on if possible. Rock On!! And Curt, I may be a dumb ass but am definitely not a dumb ass dude. DON'T CALL ME DUUUUUDE!!!! or it'll be you and me in the battle cage. I may even sign on for the tag team chalupa wrestling match. I think the new category is a great idea. When someone torques you off, you take it off the thread and to: THE BATTLE CAGE!!

Chepe, I don't know who Who Cares is. I just want a front row seat at the !!BATTLE CAGE!!! Close enough to get spit on if possible. Rock On!! And Curt, I may be a dumb ass but am definitely not a dumb ass dude. DON'T CALL ME DUUUUUDE!!!! or it'll be you and me in the battle cage. I may even sign on for the tag team chalupa wrestling match. I think the new category is a great idea. When someone torques you off, you take it off the thread and to: THE BATTLE CAGE!!

This has all been highly entertaining. Maybe we should open up a special forum for slander, verbal abuse, taunts, threats, and personal insults. You know,like the WWF of the internet climbing community, where posting in the forum is like stepping into the ring. Maybe useful information could be somewhat separated from the Weekly World News type posts. I think these are great fun. And yes, I love The Weekly World News. It's so much fun to see people make asses out of themselves by taking other people's crap seriously.

This has all been highly entertaining. Maybe we should open up a special forum for slander, verbal abuse, taunts, threats, and personal insults. You know,like the WWF of the internet climbing community, where posting in the forum is like stepping into the ring. Maybe useful information could be somewhat separated from the Weekly World News type posts. I think these are great fun. And yes, I love The Weekly World News. It's so much fun to see people make asses out of themselves by taking other people's crap seriously.

Yes. The media ALWAYS gets multiple aspects of this type of situation wrong. And I'm sure that the guy's mom considers him "experienced." That's what I used to tell my mom. It's her opinion, of course, that is really being reported.

Yes. The media ALWAYS gets multiple aspects of this type of situation wrong. And I'm sure that the guy's mom considers him "experienced." That's what I used to tell my mom. It's her opinion, of course, that is really being reported.