Retrosaurus

Route names are cool and fun, especially if some one has gone to the trouble to name them appropriately, I try to remember them and usually do. But I have also noticed that Guidebooks often prevent as much climbing as they facilitate as would be climbers wander around the base of the crag insearch of the right number (5.?) to climb as they walk past dozens of perfectly wonderful routes. -Mitch

I didn't snoop around up there too much, as I really wanted to climb more than do recon. The bolts on top of The Cube are gone, but I wouldn't worry too much about it as the routes are easily top-roped by slinging a rock on top. The routes to the right of the rubbly chimney in the center of the crag seem to be intact. The top-rope anchors for the routes to the right are the one's affected. The hangers atop Shrimp Salad are missing as is the hanger of the single bolt above the top of the easy cracks to its right. The nuts remain and the bolts look ok. At the next anchors left one hanger has already been replaced but the other bolt is missing a hanger and the bolt has been pulled partway out of the rock and spins when you try to nut a hanger onto it. Maybe it could be coaxed into seating again, or maybe it should be pulled and replaced. I didn't get a look at any of the anchors nearer the chimney but they are likely abused too. Did not get a look at the GRTC anchors either. All the anchors I saw were 3/8". If I had to guess, someone got tired of spending all the money that it takes to equip their 10 pitch sport route legacy in the mtns, and this is their way of getting the community to chip in. Pony up.

I'm headed out there this afternoon with my wife. I'll try to collect the info on what exactly is missing and remains and where. -Mitch

Don't matter. They got beer!

quote: Originally posted by Terminal Gravity: ... as much beer as they can drink (or puke-up ... Caveman, sounds like you've got a date.

No worries, Sean. Would like to make it to the ropeup, but I work weekends. -Mitch

Hiker, No. I did not. Good pun though. I have enjoyed toproping in the Icicle for many years. The Icicle needs more easily top-ropeable sub-5.8 climbing. Sorry your ass is so sore. Sit in a bucket of witchhazel. Hope you get over that bed-wetting soon. -Mitch

"I never said or impled that I was speaking of a tree on Snow Creek Wall." What is this thread titled? "My guess is that a bunch of slings around a tree could kill it. If the tree grew!" Has anyone actually seen a tree killed by slings? "Chuck, I do not think I am being either condescending or smarmy." Condescending, yes. Smarmy, yes. Add laboriously longwinded and wordy. A self proclaimed semantic scientist. you are the only one who thinks you are not. Do you often find yourself finishing the conversation aftereveryone else has left the room? "I am neither pro or anti bolting....The anti bolting side has a pervasive element in it that is exactly as I described." Your agenda is clear. "His sense of duty in removing old slings is grand but I'll wager a dollar he did not remove all the slings on the route the last time he climbed it." You owe me a dollar... and an apology.

Matt, Your points are well taken and I won't do anything without thorough evaluation of yours and all other ideas that I hear presented. Mitch

quote: Originally posted by David Parker: The most important thing is to have fun and when it isn't fun anymore (for the kid) it's time to stop, turnaround, go back, give him/her a hug and tell them they did great, etc. If you remember this and nothing else that is probably enough to ensure that your child is richly rewarded by the outdoor experiences that you share. My son is four. My wife and I have climbed a three pitch route at Peshastin (Martian Diagonal)with him. He has followed me up Orchard Rock in two pitches, cleaning the pitch of belay anchors and directional anchors. We did the first pitch or R&D on Icicle Buttress. Sunset Slab. If I can't short rope him on a walk off descent, we counter-balance rappel. This week we went to Clamshell Cave and climbed a route(5.6?)and he learned to rappel solo with set up and a tension belay down progressively steeper slabs and then a vertical face. He pretends that he belays, (feeds the rope through his ATC), cleans the belay and pitches of anchors, hangs on the rope, pulls on gear, bounces up and down on the rope, and generally cranks hard for some one that is just 37 inches tall. As long as I remember to stop while it is still fun, we have a great time.

If'n they ain't good 'nuf fer their brothers, they ain't good 'nuf fer us.

quote: Originally posted by Peter Puget: Damn I can't stop posting to this thread but... Dru - My guess is that a bunch of slings around a tree could kill it. If the tree grew! Earlier this year I returned to an area I hadn't been for ten years or so and was shocked when I saw how embedded into the tree the slings were that I had left on my last visit. Noticable groves were left in the trunk! Retro - Certainly a weathered bolt is less of an eyesore than slings! Esp. since sling replacment which you advocated usually results in shiny new slings! Think please! Does anybody really buy this bullshit? 1)Do you know how fast trees growing from cracks on SnowCreek Wall do not grow. You couldn't tie a sling on tight enough and still thread a rope through to choke the tree before the sling would be dried, bleached, degraded, weathered, tattered and gone completely of its own accord. 2)"a weathered bolt is less of an eyesore than slings". One pass with a knife and there is no eyesore at all. I advocate sling removal, not sling replacement. [This message has been edited by Retrosaurus (edited 09-20-2001).]

quote: Originally posted by crazyjz: What I wonder about is the big shiny bolt on top of the pedestal. I don't ever remember seeing a bolt there before, although it is on the start of Remourse. I noticed it too. I am reasonablly sure that the intent of that bolt is to minimize the rope drag that you get hauling rope over the top of the pedestal when belaying the second.

quote: Originally posted by JJason: Mitch, Is it correct to assume that you were the one who chopped the old 1/4" bolt on the 1st crack pitch on the Shield of Outer Space? No. That is a poor assumption.

quote: Originally posted by LUCKY: So Mitch is the one who smashed the bolts on Whipsaw and almost caused a ground fall by a fellow climber .Wacked out ethics???Chopping a first accent, wacked out ethics????Reherseing and pink pointing a crack and calling it a first accent ,wacked out ethics.GET A GRIP Caused a ground fall? Get real. Everyone of the bolts on Whipsaw are visible from the base of the route. If there had been a groundfall it would have been caused by the climber having his nose in the guidebook instead of his eyes on the rock. I suppose misinformation in a guidebook could also "cause" accidents. Call your attorney. No one is responsible for their own safety anymore. So you really want to get in to the Whipsaw issue, OK. If you are climbing Pony Keg You can clip every one of the Whipsaw bolts with a hand in the PonyKeg crack. PonyKeg was established 9 years previous. If you don't see a problem with this I feel sory for you. I had every intention of cleanly removing the bolts and had started to (on lead, as if that matters). And before I could come back with the proper tools the Whipsaw first assensionist, Kevin Pogue, upgraded the removed bolts to 1/2". I then hammered the hangers flat and some one straightened them back out. Sport climbers continue to whip onto these abused bolts and hangers like the true lemmings that they are. From the way I see things, the person doing the real set-up for disaster is the one that straightened those hangers. I merely rendered them unusable. Someone else in straightening the hangers set the entire community up with 10 perfectly camoflaged time bombs. Let's keep the discussion about issues and actions, not personalities. "Reherseing and pink pointing a crack and calling it a first accent ,wacked out ethics.GET A GRIP" First of all, Lucky. I reported my ascent of "Crossing the Deleware" exactly how it was done. (This is the only ascent on pre-placed gear that I have done.) Second, the route deserves an R/X rating even with hours of work arranging the protection on rappel. The protection is absolutely its worst at the crux, which I would put at 5.11b, but is roughly equivalent to the neighboring Red M&Ms. Third, I did not alter the stone or anyone else's subsequent climbing experience with my ascent. I find it absurd that you have a problem with this style of ascent. Maybe you should get on the route or shut up about things where you are so obviously uninformed. Mitch Sorry for going off topic but others have felt the need to drag other issues into this forum.

The areas mentioned are closed.

Matt, Thanks for the offer but I have climbed Iconoclast multiple times. This includes the Psychopath pitch (which was excellent) and the RPM start (which was unremarkable other than it was scary with near- groundfall potential). Hyperspace too (thank you very much). If you still want to climb the route we can rock-paper-scissors to see who totes the Gorilla Bar. I can't believe all the deluded people that think that permanent alteration of the stone is preferrable to a bunch of tattered slings. I guess you people don't know how to break knots or own a pocket knife. It is obvious that everyone of you whiners that are bitching about what an eyesore old rapslings are climbed right past them. Take 30 seconds and remove them. I have a garbage bag full of that shit that I've been trying to figure out what to do with. Maybe I'll macrame it into a hammock or crochet a rug. Wake up! Mitch [This message has been edited by Retrosaurus (edited 09-20-2001).]

quote: Originally posted by rat: on a somewhat related note, some shit-for-brains drilled a bolt station at the top of each of iconclast's two .10c pitches and added a chicken bolt on the second .10c pitch. these may disappear in the future since they are completely unnecessary. I've got the tools. Anyone want to go along. Next Wednesday is good for me. I assume that no one wants to claim responsibility for these bolts either. Another PNW legend? Rat, what size and style of bolts are these? Anyone have salient points to make before these bolts are removed?

Just search "Hyperspace" on this site.

I heard on the radio that someone fell off a cliff at Washington Pass and was transported to Central Washington Hospital by military helicopter. Does anyone know anything more? Did a touron fall off the overlook or was this a real climbing accident?

Still making friends David? Not the sharpest pencil in the box, are ya

I am a father and a husband and a climber. I continue to climb and to free solo, although my standards have slipped some on a good day I still free solo to 5.10. If I did not climb, I do not know who I would be. My son is 4 years old and sometimes he wants to go climbing with me. We have climbed 3-pitch routes together. He has followed and cleaned trad pitches that I have lead. And we have rappelled together off of climbs. Sometimes he gets scared. He has learned that it is ok to be scared and that he can do tough things even when he is. Every day we risk failing our children in countless ways. Death is not the worst way that we might fail them. Mitch

quote: Originally posted by Rafael H: Is it faster to hand-drill with 1/4" bit? What is best put in such a hole for emergency bailing or new routes? Thanks. For emergency bailing: 1) Get good at down-climbing. It will save your ass more often than any other technique or piece of equipment can. Once you practice it you will find down climbing to be easier than climbing up; you will never have to do a pull up. 2) Sling a natural feature: root, tree, bush, chockstone, boulder, tunnel, pinch, knob. Or down-climb to where you can. 3) Cams are alot faster to place than even 1/4" bolts but nut placements are almost always available, especially if you are willing to down-climb. 4) If you've got a pencil dick it should easily fit into a 1/4" hole. And if you need help keeping it up, just think of Christian Griffith in Danskins.

BTW, my record is 21 pitches in three hours. But you can still be my hero, Antagonizer. You crack ho you. [This message has been edited by Retrosaurus (edited 08-30-2001).]

Smoked 15 rocks then pitched? WOW!