Retrosaurus

ALERT INFECTION CONTROL SHRINKING BALL DISEASE HAS SPREAD FROM FRENCHMAN COULEE TO ICICLE. INITIATE IMMEDIATE QUARANTINE

I went to Pearly Gates yesterday and found that the route that I lead the last time I was there had sprouted a bolt at the bottom, like ten feet up from a flat unobstructed landing (,sheit, you could fall from there an' there wouldn't even be bones stickin' out) and a bolt near the top where I had put four pieces of gear in in the space of three feet. What's up with that? Yesterday I lead the route with the bolt in the overhang between the double cracks. Does anyone else wonder what that bolt is for? It is well above the crux and the moves that it protects are easily protected by your choice of traditional hardware. Before I use it to finish the wind chimes I've been collecting for does anyone want to attempt to justify it? I suppose I could be persuaded to part with the wind chimes if anyone wants to claim the offending hardware.

quote: Originally posted by ryland moore: It bodes the question, Are there too many climbers in the mountains Here is a question that both begs and defies qualification. Too many climbers for who? Too many climbers for the health and maintenance of the alpine environment? For sure! Everest is the highest dump in the world. Muir reeks of human excrement. Excessive regulations are in place in all US mtn ranges in a futile attempt to allow alpine places to recover from excessive human impact while all that really happens is another layer of bureaucracy is added and true alpine experience is destroyed for all that stay between the legal lines. Too many climbers for the climbing industry? Hardly. It's all about money. More climbers = more money; for manufacturers, for retailers, for tourism (guide/travel services), for climbing press, for climbing gyms, for bureaucracy (the more they spend the more they get). quote: with too little experience People have a right to be stupid and to die in the mountains (or else where.) What experienced climber has not witlessly stepped over the line and been graciously allowed by fate to step back? We just do not have the right to take others down with us. Rescue is not (or should not be) an entitlement (just because we can carry a cell phone.) We all began without experience, and this is good. This kind or risk taking is at the very heart of adventure. quote: or is it just as Sleeveless states, that it is just a numbers game? It's simple math. More people = more accidents. If there is one party on a mountain and a rock falls from the summit, maybe they get hit but probably not. If there is a party in every gully, someone is buying the farm. No one can deny this. But is not that simple. The real culprit is popularization and familiarity. It is splashed all over the media. The EXTREME craze. Climbing is now trendy and cool. Right up there with skateboarding and mtn biking. But that is just not the way it is. Climbing is nuts. It is dangerous. Every time you do it you could fuck up and die. Equipment could fail. Any number of unforseeable things could happen. Spontaneous rockfall. Gumbies flossing a mountain face with their climbing rope. You cannot control the risk. and if you think you can, you have either been doing a damned fine job of blowing smoke up your own ass, or you are just another lemming that popularization of the sport has been breeding. Gym Climbing, Sport Climbing, GriGris, Cell Phones, Guided Everest. It is still not tennis, and should not be. But popularization and familiarity are flavoring it that way. quote: ...just your average weekend warrior who has invested a great deal of time and effort into improving all of my climbing skills, safety and technical. The best we can do is to influence the odds. quote: ...most of us are constantly aware of the dangers that are around us. Thoughts? Am I totally off here? Yes, you are close to totally of here. The best we can do is to increase our awareness and tune our perceptions to the dangers. The very best of alpinists will develop a sixth sense for danger. Please don't take anything I have said too seriously. This is just my thoughts.

All gumbies climbing roped without a belay should use the longest rope possible so that they can have the greatest chance to floss an entire mountain face of other gumbie-climbers silly enough to stack up nuts-to-butts below them.

quote: Originally posted by chucK: Hey Denis, You are so smart, and those poor dead bastards are so stupid. Statistics show that mortality has a profound impact on IQ. Dennis may be a dick and a prick, but he is smarter than dead people and I still climb with him. quote: Originally posted by Cavespawn: You're a prick, Harmon. Go blow yourself... Even though Mr Harmon is lots smarter than dead people, I don't think he can blow himself. Maybe you should give him a hand, Cave spawn.

quote: Originally posted by gapertimmy: definately glad to hear your alright. quote: Originally posted by jon: Shit happens man glad your OK. A broken ankle is not "OK" or "alright." But it's not dead either.

quote: Originally posted by crazypolishbob: finally a word of advice instead of the usual blah, blah, blah- and how sorry they were about the victims. maybe the higher number of accidents on emmons is due to the fact it is much more popular. plus e lot of people go there and do not know squat? Natural Selection. It works. But it just can't keep up with climbing's rising popularity.

quote: Originally posted by Lambone: All I can say is ouch.... Lambone, This highlights a serious gap in your climbing skills. Please contact an old schooler to fulfill this requirement before your privilege to climb in the alpine is revoked. Overdependence on a piece of equipment/lack of knowhow to get along without it makes you an unfit partner more than 1-pitch off the deck. While you're at it brush up on the dulfersitz. While drinking beers on the deck of a friend's A-frame that he was building, a pair of us Old-Schoolers noticed a rope fixed from the peak of the house to the ground. Casually, we Old-Schoolers wrapped the rope around us and slid off the deck to the ground. Our buddy followed. Just as he was easing past the point of no return, the grimaces started . About a foot lower the profanity began to flow freely . By the time he hit the ground, we were howling in laughter and he in pain . He's still got a scar on the side of his neck. Respect old-school, Boner .

Straight forward and reasonable.

quote: Originally posted by Attitude: The intelligent climber would just leave the 4 cams that don't work on the ground. Attitude must climb only one pitch routes. Or he is clairivoyant. Hmmm, Sport climber?/Clairivoyant?

Draw your own topo from Chuck's beta.

I run two ply through my printer and print up lambone's posts.

Large caliber handgun. At least a 45. Keeps the grizzlies out of your food bag.

quote: Originally posted by Lambone: The real point I am making is that while bolts have no direct environmental impact other than aesthetic quality, making new trails all over the place does. If you bolt it, they will come. Direct impact: -aesthetic quality -reduced risk=reduced commitment=reduced adventure Indirect impact: -bolts beget bolts -increased use -increased erosion -increased garbage -increased everythingwedonotwanttoseeinnature Yes. A dull tool.

quote: Originally posted by Lambone: See where I'm comin from? Yes, but the light is so dim your message makes no sense at all. I'm done wasting my time on bonehead.

quote: Originally posted by Lambone: Is that because of the number of bolts on Snow Creek Wall? No. That is because Outerspace is a 5-star route. Engineer a moderate sport route, top to bottom on the wall and see what happens impact wise.

quote: Originally posted by rayborbon: ...No worry I will create new avatars CRANK UP THE AVATRON !!!

Climbed Outerspace yesterday afternoon (for the 30th? time ). The trail is a mess; the rock is pristine. Watched peregrin falcons from library ledge. Soaring. Tucking. Diving. Inspiring animals they are. They seemed to be most active in the neighborhood of Hyperspace. bobbyperu's info is right on. Scored a red alien that someone had left on the 3rd pitch and cleaned off about 30 feet of rap sling arranged in imaginative clusterfucks. Oh yeah, ticks. Lots of ticks.

Jean Baptiste, Shut the fuck up. If you're going to troll, at least be a little original. This topic has already been beat up by people trying to incite. Oh yeah, did I say: SHUT THE FUCK UP

quote: Originally posted by Crackhead: Hey Retrosaurus... Let's simul it, I wanna pop some bolts off too! How about we pop off every other bolt on Condorphamine addiction in Leavenworth too! oh what fun. Slam two beers, puff a bong hit, and there is a ten minute window in which your leading ability jumps a grade and a half! I never said it was safe though. And every other belay.

quote: Originally posted by Colin: Also Mitch, A picture you took on Polar Circus shows up on the front page every once in a while. I bet you didn't use any of those bolted stations on your way down. After all, you could find knifeblade placements near all of them. You'd certainly be doing the climbing community a great service if you went and chopped those too! Must have been Louise Falls or Pilsner Pillar. I have yet to climb Polar Circus. Not sure I agree with those bolted rap stations either. But they do cut down on the pile of sling from V-thread anchors and formerly conduit anchors that drop to the ground at the base of ice climbs when they melt out.

Works great from behind an avatar.

quote: Originally posted by Colin: If any of you have climbed the South Ridge of Ingall's Peak (North peak) in the last few years, I wouldn't believe you if you told me that you didn't use any of the bolts.Those big, Metolius bolts are placed right next to cracks! Thanks for the heads up on the convenience bolts. They are now on the list awaiting my new light weight restoration equipment. Would you believe me if I told you that I was going to solo that route just to pop those lil F'ers out. quote: I think that this is perfectly acceptable. Just imagine how much more severe those Mountaineer Clusterfucks would be if every party on that very popular route had to build their own belay/rap anchors.If this isn't classic rationalization, then nothing is. These are convenience bolts. Wouldn't it be handy if the whole climb was bolted. quote: I doubt that they ruin anyone's wilderness experience, for if you wanted wilderness you wouldn't be on the South Ridge of Ingall's anyway.And if you wanted a wilderness experience you wouldn't climb the Beckey Route on Liberty Bell Mtn either. Let's bolt that. I suppose that would be "perfectly acceptable" too. Wake up and smell the napalm.

quote: Originally posted by Crackbolter: Who thinks that it is not okay to drill into fresh virgin granite void of cracks? It is just not that simple as "void of cracks". There are a lot of other things that should be considered before the stone is altered in a permanent way. With a little thought I bet you could make the list as well as I. quote: Also, Is it okay to drink and climb?I don't care if you put boating swivel cupholders on both sides of your helmet with a 40 in each and crazy straws so you can drink non-stop while you're climbing, as long as: 1) You pick up the empties, 2) You don't drop rocks on anyone, 3) You don't alter the rock, 4) I don't get involved in your rescue/body recovery. quote: Is it okay to puff on the kind green bud with lots of purply hairs and cough for ten minutes and then climb gripped? Hey that shit's illegal . And really a lot of fun . Ditto on the 4 qualifications above.

I will assist with clean up of stainless steel gargage. It can be really hard to get off the rock.