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I don't know what you mean by a "wrap-three-pull- two", but it sounds like it might not be a redundant system. IF the tree is really good. I agree you don't need an independent anchor point. However, there is still the reasonable possibility that a newbie or experienced climber could make a mistake with respect to locking a biner or tieing a sling. Thus, I think it would be a very good rule of thumb to set up two independent sling/biner combos around the tree.

Are you guys following this Dept. of Veteran's Affairs fiasco? Seems like they're/we're facing a billion $ shortfall because, get this, they estimated need for veterans' use of medical services on pre-war 2002 service levels . Now what do you think the reasoning was behind this idiotic assumption? a) complete utter stupidity? b) arrogant attempt at a transparent accounting trick? c) complete disregard for our Veterans? d) genuine administration belief that we would suffer no casualties (think Pat Robertson revelation)? (also see a)) Seattle Times story Fairweather, Thanks for your reasonable post. I agree that the real work is trying to figure out what to do now that we've really stepped in it. How much more benefit of the doubt can you give these bozos to get us out of this problem? They've been continually making it worse. The VA thing is just one more bit of evidence that they're clueless about what's going on. They said during the election that, "you don't change horses in the middle of the stream". To that I reply, "you sure as hell do if the horse is heading toward a waterfall".

Prussik Peak is the obvious, quick answer but you probably already have that one on your list (tons of other stuff near there, Witches Tower being one). For a bit more adventure you could check out Norht Face of Chimney Rock. Approach via Dutch Miller Gap trail (via the notorious, soon to be gated, Middle Fork Snoqualmie Road). Camp up near the Overcoat Glacier. Overcoat Peak could also be bagged from up there. Boston Basin (West Ridge Forbidden, Sharkfin Tower, Mt. Torment). N Ridge Foggy Peak and E Wilman's Spire via Glacier Basin. Sawhorse Tower and Columbia Peak via Twin Lakes.

They were pretty much the only news org that was carrying the "Downing Street Memo" before the public made a bunch of noise about it. But what did you think of Bush's speech Peter? Do you think he actually talked about a plan for Iraq, or do you think his people just lied and said he would so they could get prime-time network coverage?

It's obviously signs of an increasingly desperate insurgency (who hate freedom).

Very sneaky! You know they won't reach the summit.

I bet he'd give you his email or phone number if you asked real nicely

Ummm....Mt. Hood maybe?

Turkey Mole with rice and tortillas

I seriously doubt they don't have the time. I see a lot of police driving around just patrolling, doing nothing, or setting up speed traps. I'll bet the big reason the "don't have the time" is because they don't like to be told what to do by civilians. I guess, to get them to investigate, you need to trick them into wanting to investigate for some reason. Tell the cops you're pretty sure that the thieves are anti-war commies or muslims or something. As far as credit card fraud goes, the people that really get hurt are the merchants. The card victim usually doesn't have to pay the charges, the credit card company does not soak it up either. Guess who gets to pay? The merchants have an interest in not letting thieves use your card. If you're concerned, write "please check ID" on the signature part of the card. It's a little bit of a hassle, but it might keep your card from getting used too much if it gets stolen.

According to whom I talked they put a dollar's worth of gas in at a gas pump to see if the card has been reported stolen yet. If the charge is refused, they're already in their car, ready to take off. Maybe that strategy has changed since the advent of the liberal use of security cameras. But for someone stealing credit cards at a TH, I don't think putting a bit of mud on the plates or using stolen/abandoned plates would be too difficult.

You can't camp legally next to the lake, but you can camp in the basin just South (which is very nice).

This amplifies Jon's point. Be smart and don't post anything on a website that you wouldn't be happy with the entire world reading (especially on a website that is googlebot patrolled, as this one is, I believe). Even if you're lucky enough to delete your embarassing post later, there's still a good chance that some jerk with a nazi complex will keep bringing it up to make themselves feel "useful". Ever looked at archive.org? Old websites do not just go down the memory hole.

Yeah, I used to fret about buying gas in Oregon too. It was scary because it was different . Once I realized getting your gas pumped in Oregon does not cost an arm and a leg more (like "full-serve" back when it existed), I no longer feared it. Now I'm just scared of buying stuff in Canada.

From MVS's page linked above. Did you mean from the North (the summit side)?

Trogdor, Give serious consideration to descending via Colchuck Col. It's a bit tricky finding the start of the descent from the summit, but just head for Pandora's Box, then look over the side. There's a snow finger that may be fat or may be thin heading down to Colchuck Col. From there, it's one big happy glissade instead of the misery that is Asgard. Even if the snow finger is thin, you can scramble down on rocks. I'd say bring an axe at most. The crampons might be necessary in the morning, but this time of year probably not after the climb. So without poons you at least wouldn't have to worry about being stranded at the top. Suncups and an axe will probably allow you enough security to get across to the base.

I sure as hell don't take a map and compass with me when I go up and climb Vesper, but maybe I know the area better. I could see getting surprised by whiteout conditions. What I wonder about is these guys' instructions to call in the cavalry at 10pm the night of the climb. Doesn't that seem a bit excessive? I think you should be pretty damn sure you can either a) survive being 12 hours overdue or b) get out in time. It's just too easy to be a dozen hours overdue when climbing (and be just fine). Rescue plans should be made a bit more conservatively than, "if I'm not home for dinner, call the police."

ummm... The first is the government turning private property into state property. The second is the government turning state property into private property.

The theft of people's homes by the government is not the republican agenda. The selling of government owned homes (stolen from citizens) is part of the republican agenda. Maybe you misread my former post, I was asking that republicans prohibit selling of public property to private companies. I would think the Republicans would be against this.

So is privatization ...and what do you call the federal contradiction of state MJ and right to die laws? Those are obvious denunciations of state's rights championed by republicans.

With respect to the topic of this thread, I would love to see Peter Puget's beloved Republican leadership stand up for the our rights by probiting the sale of public property (acquired through eminent domain) to private investors!

I can't believe you are holding up anti-slavery and civil rights as instances where public pressure won over government interference. If you look at it from the white southerners' perspective these are two of the greatest examples of massive government interference.

Well if that's really all that kills solo hikers in the Grand Canyon, I'm quite surprised... Nevertheless, if we restrict ourselves to this scenario, I would posit that many people who fall off of 200-1000 foot cliff in the Grand Canyon might have actually been saved if they had a partner with them. Specific example which probably describes a large percentage of falling fatalities: many times you can accidentally get yourself in a bad situation by climbing up or down to someplace from which it is difficult to reverse your course (I did this twice just the other day while on a solo outing ). If you are with somebody else, then they can help you out of your jam, possibly by calling in the cavalry. If you are alone, you're already dead if you just sit there and expire due to exposure so you may be more likely to attempt to climb out, and fail. The record will only show a falling fatality. I don't think this is voluntarily taking a bigger risk. Now I guess there is some moderating factor of a big group of people. The risk-taking behavior of single people is much more variable, while a big group may have the lowest common denominator effect. Probbably not though when it comes to parties composed of both genders trying to impress each other .

Roasted almonds! I could live on those for days. Hummus does sound pretty good though. If you're gonna be sitting on snow in the sun for 7 days, make sure you bring lots of beer! (or at least gin).

The obvious reason solo hiking is related to higher mortality is because death is more likely in many mishaps that one might otherwise survive if accompanied For example, if you're with a competent partner you probably won't die from an immobilizing injury (broken leg, arm trapped under boulder, inadvertent straying into terrain that requires assistance to get out of) whereas if you were alone, this complication is much more serious. Other reasons for safety in numbers too: less likely both people will have forgotten their water, strength in numbers versus backwoods psychopathic red-staters or animals, more? So anyway, it seems obvious to me that solo-hiking is associated with greater mortality because of the inherently increased exposure, not because there is some siren of soloists beckoning them to do stupid stuff. I guess you could make a better judgement if you had a tabulation of the causes of death for soloists versus group-burdened unfortunates. p.s. From the title I thought this thread was going to be about those solo thru-hikers who glom onto you in the wilderness and won't shut up because they're so starved for human interaction.