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What is scary is that 4 dissented! That's one person away from police state! This highlights my biggest reason for voting against McCain. From NY Times editorial today: It is sobering to think that habeas hangs by a single vote in the Supreme Court of the United States — a reminder that the composition of the court could depend on the outcome of this year’s presidential election. The ruling is a major victory for civil liberties — but a timely reminder of how fragile they are.

Now what's the weather prognosis? One site says 60% of showers on Sunday

No. The cop thinks he's too smart and won't get caught. See "hubris".

You guys are the best. Thank you. :kisss:

JayB, I think this quote paraphrasing the McClellan book sums up my guess at what went on: Not an elaborate "baroque" conspiracy, just another (well-executed) sell job. I don't think they knew that there were no WMD's, but I don't think they were really that worried about them either. I do agree with Rove or whomever said it that McClellan's stuff sounds right out of a liberal blog. That quote above could have come from me!

Couldn't hurt! Though I agree that public money would be better spent on mass transit serving the work commuters.

What do you think about the govt. subsidizing alternative energy sources (i.e. not fossil fuels, wind, wave, etc.)? These initiatives mandating that govt. buy XX% of it's energy from alternative sources seems like a step in the right direction. They are creating a market, giving potential producers a bit more security. High gas prices will also have the same effect (making alternative energy more viable). Hmmm...I guess I haven't really addressed the issue of how govt. could get the gas prices down now though did I? Well, if we had enough alternative sources of energy, this may dampen fossil-fuel prices by increasing supply. Though this seems like a long ways off.

A ski train to Stevens would be way cool. They've already got the tracks (how close do those get to Steven's anyway?). Just build a station and bus shuttle up there, and maybe a station at Shillshole or Magnolia. People already paying big bucks for the damn lift tix. You could probably soak 'em for a train ticket too. That would be sweet not having to drive home after a tiring day on the slopes. Just think of the $$$ they could get from beer sales alone!

That's a great point Matt. If people have their ego invested in it more, then perhaps they won't just slap up pieces of shit. I've noticed that some FA'ers seem to be more interested in just the game of climbing something new. They find a piece of unclimbed rock and just like the fun of figuring out how to get up it. So they bash a bunch of bolts in and create one more 60' one-move wonder, then move on, to find some more untouched stone. It seems similar to powder farming. Only problem is, we don't get fresh pieces of rock every time a winter storm blows in. I'd much rather have people invested in it so they're willing to try to create something of enduring quality, rather than just one more grid-bolted pitch for which most interesting thing could be the name (if you can remember it).

I could see how one could have voted for Bush in 2000. Voting for him in 2004 though is surely a mark of shame.

....and what's gonna be drippy this weekend. Hopefully it won't rain. Is the Squaw slow or quick to dry? Will it be drippy? How about Angel's Crest and Borderline? Octopus's Garden? I know Rock On is usually slow to dry. How about The Snake, Squish Butt, UE? Other words of wisdom regarding climbs 10 and under?

The Tooth YAY!!

walk right, rap Pure Joy

Hey Kevbone, I'll bet if you lightened up a little bit, you'd really dig on Chet Atkins, or Merle Travis. Phenomenal guitar players.

From location and number of posts of the original poster, and the fame of the North Ridge, I'll bet this person has a fairly set time window. I agree with you guys that IF the weather looks totally bomber, then don't haul a bunch of shit you don't need. But say you're pushing your luck because you're from out of town and want to tick the famous NR Stuart in your one-week window? If the weather were unstable, would you bring a tent, or would you just say no and crag? Something in between? Personally, I think marooned on the N Ridge in a summer blizzard would be pretty damn crappy. But if you had a tent, and didn't need to be at work the next day, chances are with a quick summer storm, you could wait it out and still have a reasonably good time. Off White's ledge is mentioned in this trip report. I remember looking at that thing, and my mind's eye says it's big enough for an I-tent. Though this year, depending on when you do this thing, it could be crowded with snow. This site is East-facing and below the crest so you would be protected from the Westerly winds (which would be where storms would probably be coming from) and would maybe get morning sun.

I thought you didn't care?

Hank Williams - Moanin' The Blues Truck Stop - Starday Records compilation Junior Brown - Guit' With It Ernest Tubb - Blue Christmas Creedence - Born on the Bayou Beasts of Bourbon - The Axeman's Jazz

Tonight's The Night Sticky Fingers Paranoid Locust Abortion Technician Jealous Again

Any time you ride as a passenger in a car on the freeway, in an airplane, or in a boat a mile from shore.

Unless you are talking about the "Urban Bypass" variation, I guess we have a difference on what one calls a tenuous foothold.

Well you guys better get your acts together on all those 5.9-10b friction climbs in Darrington. The only thing that differentiates the cruxes (after which the route is graded) is the number of tenuous no-handhold foot placements needed to get to the next stance: one tenuous foothold,no hands- 5.9 two tenuous footholds,no hands- 5.10a three tenuous footholds,no hands- 5.10b They're all the same move, but you give higher grades if there's more of them in a row. I think it's a good system, BTW.

The YDS works fine. One just must understand that its usage has been allowed to wander from the absurdly impractical strict "hardest move" criterion. I think most people understand this, hence are not baffled by the grading of BoC. Only esoteric definition clingers will be confused/upset when a route grade takes into account the sustained nature of a climb. The hardest move criterion would only be useful if one was really concerned that routes have the same grade when lead or toproped. But I think most people are past that. They understand that it is almost always more difficult to lead than to toprope. Different grading system would be necessary only for the most uncomprehending.

Sez you. Plenty of routes get higher grades in the guidebook because of the pump factor. Current route under discussion, Breakfast of Champions, is a classic example. One layback move to slot perfect jam and good foot, 5.9. The rest is technically easier.

I normally don't play "pile on the new guy" but this statement bothers me, and I've been hearing a lot of this crap lately. The rating of a climb has nothing to do with it's protection. It only has to do with the difficulty of a climb. The "R", "X", "PG13", or :: speak to the available protection. If it feels 5.9 on toprope, it's 5.9. You don't need a harder grade in a book to lead it, you need bigger balls. Let's get a bit real here instead of playing rating aesthetics semantic games. Any sustained enduro route is going to be easier on toprope. The act of placing gear takes time and energy, which is more than an inconvenience when racing the pump.