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#629299 - 01/03/07 01:40 PM Ice Climbing Survey
JoJo Offline
journeyman

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 73
TRs: 0 Photos: 1
Loc: Montana
John F had posted this below in the thread regarding Hyalite Canyon access but since the survey we have developed is applicable to anyone that ice climbs, I thought I would re-post it here since it is getting buried in the other thread.

If you've already filled it out, thank you and sorry to keep beating the horse. Note, the survey is set up so you can take it only once.

The survey is at http://www.hyalitecanyon.com

We greatly appreciate any effort you may give to the survey as it will be important down the road for us to show solid data on ice climbing usage and habits.

Thanks again,
Joe Josephson

Here is the email that has been sent out:

Recently adopted Travel Plans by the Gallatin National Forest severely threatens reasonable access to the world-class ice climbing found in Hyalite Canyon near Bozeman, MT.

Montana State University, and the South west Montana Climbers Coalition have developed a quick survey on ice climbing and will be critical in our efforts to document Hyalite's unique status of one of the world's premier venues.

The survey is located at: http://www.hyalitecanyon.com

We encourage you all to take a few moments of your time to complete the simple survey. No sign up or registration is required and your responses are protected by secure encryption.

We can not stress enough just how important it is for us to get as many participants as possible for this survey. Please spread the word to all your friends and partners interesting in ice climbing, even if they have not yet visited Hyalite.

The data will provide extremely useful, if not necessary, information to present our situation to the Forest Service regarding the adopted Gallatin National Forest Travel Plan. If you are interested in reading more about this issue and the ice climbing communities reaction to this recent development, please visit http://www.montanaice.com/forums/index.php and go to the Hyalite Canyon Ice Conditions page.


Thank you in advance for your time, interest and support.

Again, the link for the survey is:

http://www.hyalitecanyon.com

Regards,
Joe Josephson
Director, South west Montana Climbers Coalition

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#629305 - 01/03/07 01:45 PM Re: Ice Climbing Survey [Re: JoJo]
JoJo Offline
journeyman

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 73
TRs: 0 Photos: 1
Loc: Montana
PS. Can the administrator of this forum make it a "Sticky" so it stays at the top of the page. Thanks in advance.
_________________________
Joe Josephson
www.bozemanicefestival.com

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#629431 - 01/03/07 03:08 PM Re: Ice Climbing Survey [Re: JoJo]
olyclimber Offline
☼☼☼☼☼☼☼

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 25221
TRs: 47 Photos: 892
Loc: In Love with You
I made it all sticky for ya. Fill that thing out peeps.

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#629438 - 01/03/07 03:11 PM Re: Ice Climbing Survey [Re: olyclimber]
OrganDonor Offline
member

Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 143
TRs: 0 Photos: 1
Loc: Bellingham
Where was the survey located again?

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#629445 - 01/03/07 03:16 PM Re: Ice Climbing Survey [Re: OrganDonor]
JoJo Offline
journeyman

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 73
TRs: 0 Photos: 1
Loc: Montana
Considering most of the posts on cc.com, I don't know if you're being facitious or not but in the spirit of assuming the best, the survey is at:

http://www.hyalitecanyon.com
_________________________
Joe Josephson
www.bozemanicefestival.com

Top
#631888 - 01/08/07 06:37 AM Re: Ice Climbing Survey [Re: JoJo]
capitolp Offline
stranger

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 10
TRs: 0 Photos: 0
So what are the particulars? How will the area be impacted?

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#633115 - 01/10/07 08:55 AM Re: Ice Climbing Survey [Re: capitolp]
olyclimber Offline
☼☼☼☼☼☼☼

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 25221
TRs: 47 Photos: 892
Loc: In Love with You
I believe it boils down to proposed new locked gates on unplowed roads= a much longer hike to get to the ice climbs unless you own a sled. There are posts about it both the links above provided by Joe as well as info posted on this site by John Frieh.

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#633525 - 01/10/07 09:25 PM Re: Ice Climbing Survey [Re: olyclimber]
John Frieh Offline
sprayer

Registered: 11/08/03
Posts: 6290
TRs: 56 Photos: 1214
Loc: PDX
Sorry for the slow reply... been chasing ice in CO this week \:\)

Oly summed it up perfectly:

Gated road = much much longer hike = less and/or no access.

If you have any specific questions shoot me a PM or post them here.

And thanks to all who have done the survey.

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#635988 - 01/16/07 10:40 AM Re: Ice Climbing Survey [Re: John Frieh]
JoJo Offline
journeyman

Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 73
TRs: 0 Photos: 1
Loc: Montana
Hello everyone,

I'm sure you are all anxious to hear the latest news on the ice climbing community actions regarding the Gallatin National Forest Travel Plan. Quite a lot has been going on behind the scenes but we are still up against the wall and are required to make a formal appeal which is due February 1, 2007.

In a nutshell, the Forest indicated to Bill Murdock (County Commissioner and long time ice climber) they may be willing to reach a discretionary compromise without an appeal as it is in the Supervisor's authority to do so. Encouraged by these overtures, several of us spent many, many hours of coalition building with other user groups and developed a clear and simple plan requiring only minor "tweaks" to the Record of Decision (ROD); one which would have solved most of the concerns ice climbers have over future access to Hyalite Canyon.

On January 12th, Bill Dockins, Bill Murdock, Sean Becker (City Commissioner and ice climber) and I along with several representatives of other user groups had a meeting with the most of the Gallatin Forest administration (seven total including Supervisor Becki Heath) and although they claim to be "listening" and are "very pleased" to see joint efforts between user groups, it is very clear they are happy with, if not proud of, the ROD and will resist any changes tooth and nail.

Needless to say, many of us are now fired up.

Fortunately, we have also been working on the official appeal process although it now needs to kick into high gear. Immediate concerns are determining who can be appellants, which is something of a frustrating, moving target. That is, what the regulations state versus who the Forest Service claims can be an official appellant is not entirely clear.

The Access Fund and The Wilderness Society have been helping us sort through the legal and writing processes of the appeal. To my knowledge, several people have already volunteered to be appellants: Peter Aengst, Pat Callis, and Chris Naumann.

If this administrative appeal process does not work then our only option would be litigation along with the huge costs involved (50K or more).

A CALL TO ACTION

So what can be done right now?

JOIN or RENEW NOW
Although the initial appeal process does not require full legal counsel and will not be too expensive, there have been (and will be) some financial costs.

Most importantly, an quality appeal will require a certain level of legal research to create the strongest case possible. As the Forest said, "The responsibility is to prove us (the F.S.) wrong. And we don't want to be wrong." They actually said that.

Our own, Bill Dockins has been a huge asset volunteering his time and expertise but he can not do it alone and we will need to hire some help.

If you are not already a member of the South West Montana Climbers Coalition (SMCC) or the ACCESS FUND, please JOIN NOW. If you are a member but haven't sent in a renewal in recent memory, PLEASE RENEW NOW!

Visit the Access Fund at:
http://www.accessfund.org/


Additional Information on joining the SMCC can be found at:

http://www.montanaclimbers.org/memberships.html
OR, pay with a credit card at:
http://www.firstascentpress.com/buy.html
(I personally donate all the credit card merchant expenses so the entire membership fee goes to the SMCC)

Fundraising:
Any additional contributions or fundraising ideas are encouraged.

Anyone interested in helping local fundraising efforts please contact me at joe@firstascentpress.com and I'll forward the information.

Ice Climbing Survey:
If you haven't done so already, please fill out the ice climbing survey at http://www.hyalitecanyon.com. PLEASE, take a few minutes of your time and spread the word.

Here is a direct link.
http://www.surveymonkey.com/Users/155540..._COPY_THIS_LINK

Letters to the Editor:
I really want to thank all the NW climbers that have taken the time to write letters. I would encourage everyone else to write a letter to the editor of the Bozeman Daily Chronicle (refer to http://bozemandailychronicle.com/webmaster/ for details). No one knows exactly how this might help but a full court press in the court of public opinion can't hurt.

I can't suggest what to say nor would I suggest you simply rephrase anything else that has been published already. Write from your heart and specific to your own experience and needs. Suggestions on what the Forest Service should do are not needed. Write about how this personally affects you.

Letter Writing Campaign:
At some point, we will probably need to launch a letter writing campaign to our state and federal representatives. Anyone willing to spearhead this at the WA, ID, OR level should contact me.

Additional Help:
Moving forward, the biggest steps you can do to help right now are the ones listed above and spreading the word to all your local climbing friends and partners. As the February 1st deadline approaches, I am certain many additional tasks will reveal themselves. Please stay posted and active.

Thank you all in advance for your time, energy and support.
Please stay posted.
Joe Josephson
_________________________
Joe Josephson
www.bozemanicefestival.com

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#637331 - 01/18/07 06:25 PM Take my money [Re: JoJo]
John Frieh Offline
sprayer

Registered: 11/08/03
Posts: 6290
TRs: 56 Photos: 1214
Loc: PDX
Here is the deal:

I want you to join the Southwest Montana Climbers Coalition (no you don't have to live in SW Montana to join).

It is 10 dollars per year to join. If you join between now and Feb 10th 2007 (everyone should get paid in between now and then) I will reimburse you 50 percent of your joining fee.

You join for a year: I will write you a check for 5 bucks.
2 years? 10 bucks.
3 years? 15 bucks.

You get the idea. This is your chance to spend my money. Tell your friends... etc etc.

Get active. Get involved. Send me a PM or call me if want to take advantage of this offer: 503.758.5772

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#760970 - 01/15/08 04:01 PM Re: Take my money [Re: John Frieh]
payaso Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 286
TRs: 0 Photos: 1
Loc: Seattle
Looks like the survey is complete. What were the results?

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#971312 - 08/01/10 06:03 PM Re: Take my money [Re: payaso]
Zakzak Offline
stranger

Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 5
TRs: 0 Photos: 0
Loc: Colorado
Survey results? I am curious about this, I climb in Ouray and around the Telluride Area...
_________________________
Zak

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#1006474 - 02/23/11 03:18 AM Re: Ice Climbing Survey [Re: JoJo]
Teh Phuzzy Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 359
TRs: 0 Photos: 13
Loc: (50TREE)
hyalitecanyon.com seems to not be up...



I'm not an ice climber, but I am not a fan of stinky sleds and long approaches in general.
_________________________
never need a cliffside push
never turn my brain to mush

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#1064669 - 04/12/12 08:50 PM Re: Ice Climbing Survey [Re: JoJo]
2341 Offline
stranger

Registered: 04/12/12
Posts: 1
TRs: 0 Photos: 0
Loc: Enter your state here
Originally Posted By: JoJo
John F had posted this below in the thread regarding Hyalite Canyon access but since the survey we have developed is applicable to anyone that ice climbs, I thought I would re-post it here since it is getting buried in the other thread.

If you've already filled it out, thank you and sorry to keep beating the horse. Note, the survey is set up so you can take it only once.

The survey is at www.hyalitecanyon.com

We greatly appreciate any effort you may give to the survey as it will be important down the road for us to show solid data on ice climbing usage and habits.

Thanks again,
Joe Josephson

Here is the email that has been sent out:

Recently adopted Travel Plans by the Gallatin National Forest severely threatens reasonable access to the world-class ice climbing found in Hyalite Canyon near Bozeman, MT.

Montana State University,led strip lighting outdoor and the South west Montana Climbers Coalition have developed a quick survey on ice climbingled strip lighting and will be critical in our efforts to document Hyalite's unique status of one of the world's premier venues. 12v led light bars

The survey is located at: www.hyalitecanyon.com

We encourage you all to take a few moments of your time to complete the simple survey. No sign up or registration is required and your responses are protected by secure encryption.

We can not stress enough just how important it is for us to get as many participants as possible for this survey. Please spread the word to all your friends and partners interesting in ice climbing, even if they have not yet visited Hyalite.

The data will provide extremely useful, if not necessary, information to present our situation to the Forest Service regarding the adopted Gallatin National Forest Travel Plan. If you are interested in reading more about this issue and the ice climbing communities reaction to this recent development, please visit www.montanaice.com/forums/index.php and go to the Hyalite Canyon Ice Conditions page.


Thank you in advance for your time, interest and support.

Again, the link for the survey is:

www.hyalitecanyon.com

Regards,
Joe Josephson
Director, South west Montana Climbers Coalition

Top
#1081942 - 09/14/12 03:25 AM Re: Ice Climbing Survey [Re: JoJo]
kobebryantusa Offline
stranger

Registered: 09/12/12
Posts: 2
TRs: 0 Photos: 0
I am also really looking forward,it is very good!
_________________________
Louis Vuitton Handbags

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#1095271 - 01/21/13 10:23 AM Re: Ice Climbing Survey [Re: JoJo]
Kevin Hansen ID Offline
n00b

Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 27
TRs: 0 Photos: 1
Loc: Albion ID
Hello, I just read everything on the website, tried to take the survey, but everything is so out dated. Even hyalitecanyon.com hasn't updated their page in years.

Does this really need to stay "Sticky"?
I'd think deleting this thread would be ok.
Kevin
_________________________
I live 30min North of the City, always looking for a partner.

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