catbirdseat Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 I just finished watching a 1997 movie starring Dan Akroyd called Arrow about a Cold War project by AVRO aviation to build the world's first supersonic interceptor jet. They had a prototype that could do Mach 2 at an altitude of up to 85,000 ft. It was the first delta wing jet. It had the first engine that could generate 20,000 lbs of thrust or 30,000 with afterburners. America didn't have anything like it for years. The F-104 was not nearly as capable. They had offers from both the French and the Americans to buy the engines and the Americans to buy the planes, but the new Prime Minister of the Conservative Government ordered every thing destroyed immediately. Nothing survived. The engineers went south to Boeing, NASA, Lockeed, North American and to France to work on the Concord. It seems to me that this was one of the biggest strategic blunders ever made in Canada and perhaps the beginning of a long slide that continues today. Anyone care to discuss? Bear in mind, I have done zero research on the subject other than what I remember from the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 where do you think the term cheesehead came from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted January 23, 2003 Author Share Posted January 23, 2003 It seems that the changes that accompany a change of government in Canada are even more wrenching than in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 they have government? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted January 23, 2003 Author Share Posted January 23, 2003 (edited) FYI, there is a web page on the AVRO Arrow The demise of the Arrow had a traumatic impact on government policies and public support for research and development. In particular, the possibility of Canada undertaking any major technological initiative (especially in the defence field) was foreclosed due to loss of confidence in Canadian capabilities. Moreover, the government apparatus was unable to comprehend the key role of technological innovation in economic development and therefore incapable of providing the neces- sary leadership and stimulus. In the course of the abortive negotiations to solicit USAF funding for the Arrow, the U.S. Department of Defense offered to allow Canadian industry to bid on U.S. military procurement contracts in compensation for the industrial dislocation caused by cancellation of the Arrow program. As a result, the Canada-U.S. Defence Production Sharing Agreement was instituted in 1959 with the objective of achieving reciprocity in military equipment trade between the two countries. This arrangement locked Canada into the U.S. defence system and guaranteed that the Canadian Armed Forces would henceforth be equipped mainly with U.S.-developed hardware. Did you know they were working on a flying saucer in 1959? Edited January 23, 2003 by catbirdseat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salbrecher Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 My Grandpa was a machinist on the Arrow till it shut down . At least Canada got some cool DEW stations up north as a result! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleblebleb Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Sounds like a cool movie catbirdseat. Don't let mockingbird get to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted January 23, 2003 Author Share Posted January 23, 2003 Sounds like a cool movie catbirdseat. Don't let mockingbird get to you. Who, trask? Nonsense! Why we are practically soul mates! Most Americans have probably never heard of the Arrow, but I am sure that many Canadians, especially older ones, have. I wonder do they regrets about what happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulB Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Most Americans have probably never heard of the Arrow, but I am sure that many Canadians, especially older ones, have. I wonder do they regrets about what happened? Most Canadians have never heard of the Arrow either. As for regrets, many people view the whole affair as an example of the US government exerting influence on Canada to protect their own industrial interests. As depicted in the movie, in return for shutting down the Arrow program, the US offered to supply Canada with BOMARC missiles (nuclear tipped no less) to provide air defence in the North. Whether or not this is exactly true is a matter of debate, but it's a fact that shortly after the Arrows were chopped up, BOMARC missiles were stationed at CFB North Bay in Ontario (Canada's equivalent to Cheyenne Mountain in Colorado). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshK Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Yeah, and the russians also were way ahead of the US in the early space race. their solid rocket booster technology was way ahead. 10 years later, look at who was on the moon and who was copying aircraft designs left and right. It's not who starts out ahead, but where you get in the end... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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