For students and the unemployed

[freeclimb9]

ryland,

you ignorant slut.

on the scale with say a professor, the application pool is much smaller since there are more prestigious universities, and supply and demand come closer to meeting.

The percentage of those who are awarded PhDs and afterwards attain a professorship has dropped below 20%.

It's clear that you "do not have a figure", or a clue.

[COL._Von_Spanker]

"but I would say the numbers applying and those that actually get jobs is a huge difference" Exactly, so why not just train the person whos personality and other skills mesh, like nearly all other business in the country operate? Like I said earlier it's a troll, with employment potential as the bait, in an unstable economy to get people to take the course so they can make some money. Using the excuse that tough times call for this sort of practice does not make it OK.

 

The life of a guide is a lifestyle choice and a labor of love, I don't think there are any guides that got in it for the money.

[ryland_moore]

Now if applied for the same jobs and just listed certified guide by joe jo-jo jr. Shabadoo guide service it ain't gonna mean shit to anyone but Joey jo-jo.

 

Unless joe jo-jo jr. guide service had an elite and impeccable reputation among the outdoor guiding community! I am not saying this is the case for the original link posted on this topic but if you have NOLS certification, or something on that calibur, you could get almost any outdoor position you'd like with others. It is the same for everything in this world. It is all about first, who you know, and second, your qualifications. NOLS leadership training is the Ivy League of outdoor leadership training courses. If you say you were instructed by the Mountaineers, well it is a toss-up depending on who your instructor was. Not the same calibur of people.

[freeclimb9]

NOLS leadership training is the Ivy League of outdoor leadership training courses.

read as "expensivie and pretensious".

 

Stupid NOLS fucks retrobolted some routes of mine. Asshole move, IMO. Karmic retribution has killed a couple of 'em. Vulcan is a harsh master.

[COL._Von_Spanker]

AMGA

 

AMGA has the REAL certification requirements, tough ones anyway.

 

"You meet the prerequisites for the Rock Instructor Certification Exam if you:

1) have successfully completed the Rock Instructor Course and professionally guided 40 days (paid)

since taking that course. Include documentation in your program application;

2) are a current Individual Member of the AMGA;

3) provide a personal climbing resume of at least 50 multi-pitch traditional climbs within the

last 2 years, showing each of the following;

a) that you have led or shared lead on at least 10 routes Grade III, and 4 routes Grade IV;

b) that you have led at least 20 traditional routes rated 5.10c or harder (if these are multipitch,

they may be included in the 50 above);

4) can safely and comfortably lead crack and face climbs rated 5.10c, A2 at the time of the exam;

5) are at least age 18;

6) have current Wilderness First Responder certification or better."

 

and

 

You meet the prerequisites for the Advanced Rock Guide Course if you:

1) have successfully completed the Rock Instructor Course and can document that you have

guided professionally (paid) 40 days since taking that course;

2) are a current Associate Member or higher of the AMGA;

3) provide a personal climbing resume of at least 50 climbs, showing each of the following;

a) that you have led or shared lead on at least 5 routes Grade IV or longer and at least 4

routes Grade V or longer;

b) that you have led at least 10 traditional routes rated 5.10b or harder;

4) can safely and comfortably lead crack and face climbs rated 5.10b, A2 at the time of the

course;

5) possess equipment suitable for Grade IV routes;

6) have current Wilderness First Responder certification;

7) are at least age 18;

8) provide a letter of reference from a Certified Rock Guide indicating suitability for this

course.

 

Alpine

 

"You may enroll in the Advanced Alpine Guides Course if you meet the following prerequisites:

1) Have completed the Alpine Guide Course;

2) You are a current Associate Member or higher of the AMGA;

3) Have at least five years of alpine climbing experience;

4) Provide a personal climbing resume showing each of the following:

a) 30 different alpine climbs, with experience in at least two different areas (e.g. the

Andes and Alaska).

b) 10 different alpine rock climbs rated 5.7 or harder

c) 10 different glacier routes with significant

crevasse hazard

d) 5 different waterfall ice climbs rated

WI 4 or harder

5) You can safely and comfortably lead, in rock

shoes, crack and face climbs rated 5.10a at the

time of the course;

6) You can safely and comfortably lead, in stiff

mountaineering boots, crack and face climbs

rated 5.7 at the time of the course;

7) You are able to comfortably employ French

crampon techniques on 40 degree hard, frozen

snow in ascent and descent at the time of the

course;

8) You can safely and comfortably lead WI 4 at

the time of the course;

9) Have a current Wilderness First Responder

certification;

10) Have completed an AMGA approved Level II avalanche course, or have the Discipline

Coordinator’s or Technical Director’s written approval for an alternate course.

11) You are at least age 18.

 

 

[ryland_moore]

Good points Col. I am starting to agree with you a little more now. The ability to lose a point threough typing is quite easy and therefore a point may not come across as one may have intended.

 

Freeclimb, I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. Your 20% does not say what it is down from and I could go out right now and get a job as a professor at any po dunk yocal college, like your alma mater of Utah State. Maybe your polygamist lifestyle filled with ugly women (or is it men?), lack of decent beer (herecy!), and unorthodox way of life living in the worst state of the Union has led you down the path of ignorance. Shut the fuck up you dumb-ass Mormon pussy! Give my best to your Mom, she sure tasted good last night!

[ryland_moore]

Col. any idea what an AMGA cert. costs?

[COL._Von_Spanker]

Between $1,000 and $2,000 bucks. I don't know much about it, but I think this is a pretty well respected acreditation, though I wouldn't shell out the dough.

 

It doesn't really have much to do with my point which I don't remember any more, but damn, those are some stout requirements.

Edited January 17, 2003 by COL._Von_Spanker

[ryland_moore]

I guess if that was what you wanted to do for a living and not just get it to have it, then it would be worth it. I know that is the elite cert. any climbing guide can hold, so if you have it, then more doorsopen for you for work.

[Dru]

UIAGM is a respected certification. AMGA is not as respected, i would say.

[ryland_moore]

Because it is international? Do most guides get AMGA first and then move up?

[Dru]

UIAGM has a more rigorous criterion and testing system. Look it up on their website. You dont need to be UIAGM to guide in America so not a lot of American guides get it.

[troubleski]

my big problem is that I don't feel that my resume is quite up to snuff to do the AMAG Rock Course yet.

 

So I could take the AMGA Top Rope Class but that costs between $650 and $750. Infact this class seems to be taught by private companies and doesn't seem like it covers any more material.... just has the AMGA name...

 

If I was a hardguy climber like the rest of you, I would probably say hell no!!! to baby sitting a bunch of people in a top rope class.... but... I am not...

 

What I would like to do is start building some general work experience while I work my way up a few grades and I feel very comfortable leading all kinds of mid 10's .... then go take the AMGA Rock instructor class.... I definatly agree that these national level certifications are the way to go... I am just not quite there yet.

 

thanks for all the input though...

 

[Dwayner]

Bro. Ryland don't know much about the academic world when he say:

"I could go out right now and get a job as a professor at any po dunk yocal college, like your alma mater of Utah State."

 

My answer to that: No you can't. Although you don't need a Ph.D. to teach at most community colleges - (usually only a Master's of some sort) jobs even there are rare (because of tenure) and when they do open, there are plenty of desperate unemployed Ph.D.'s to apply for those relatively miserable positions. And when a rare position appears in your field in a place you where you could actually tolerate living, then you compete against inside candidates, very specific candidate requirements, race, ethnicity and gender preferences, etc.

A Ph.D. is mostly an endorsement that you have a high level of knowledge in your field and the ability to conduct original research. It comes with NO job guarantees although there are certainly more jobs in certain areas than others, but not necessarily in the academic world. but that's not really an alpine comment but your original statement was so naive I thought I'd make a response.

 

An alpine comment: Unless they changed their policy, RMI used to have annual free tryouts for their guide service/climbing school where they evaluated you based on very basic skills along with enthusiasm and other desirable personality traits, and then they taught you the RMI system. I don't think they charged for any of that. If you were a good climber already, that might help but I don't think they wanted know-it-all's or "free-thinkers" who might stray from their generally successful way of getting people up and down a big mountain. The rumor was that it also helped if you were a friend of one of the more important guides or of the owners' families, or were a Kennedy.

 

- Dwayner

[freeclimb9]

I could go out right now and get a job as a professor at any po dunk yocal college, like your alma mater of Utah State.

 

Maybe your polygamist lifestyle filled with ugly women (or is it men?), lack of decent beer (herecy!), and unorthodox way of life living in the worst state of the Union has led you down the path of ignorance.

 

Shut the fuck up you dumb-ass Mormon pussy!

 

Give my best to your Mom, she sure tasted good last night!

Ryland Moore,

you are an idiot. Your stupidity is evidenced in your lashing out with insults. Too bad you can't get a refund from your "somewhat well-known private university back east" because you got ripped off. Take another pull on the bong, stoner.

[COL._Von_Spanker]

Dwayner,

What is the origin of Ph.D.? When a person get's a Ph.D. they are doctor of philosphy, so if you get your Ph.d. in philosophy, do you have a doctorate of philosphy in philosphy?

[ryland_moore]

Dwayner and freeclimb, recognize sarcasm when you see it. Insults were only spewn, freeclimb, in response to your insults throughout your previous posts. As for the getting ripped off bit, my trust fund didn't even feel a dent from it. Enjoy your weekends. Freeclimb, go TR some WI 2s like in all of your photos on your website. You bad ass ice climber you!

[freeclimb9]

with the high pressure system sitting overhead, I'm off to sport climb on some sun-heated basalt Idaho way in "5.11 Heaven". Vitamin D synthesis is needed.

[Dwayner]

The Colonel ask:

"...so if you get your Ph.d. in philosophy, do you have a doctorate of philosphy in philosphy?"

 

first of all, generally speaking, you'd need to be able to spell "philosophy" correctly more than once....hey! just joking, Sparky! simma-down!

 

 

Next, it's short for "Doctor of Philosophy" from the Latin, "Philosophiae Doctor" thus the seemingly inverted abbreviation.

Yes, someone who has achieved that degree in Philosophy would be a Doctor of Philosophy in Philosophy.

 

There are, however, more cynical interpretations of "Ph.D.", among them:

 

Patiently hoping for Degree

Piled higher and Deeper (after BS = Bullsh..., MS = More of the Same...)

Professorship? hah! Dream on!

Please hire. Desperate.

Pour him (or her) a Drink

Physiologically Deficient

Probably headed for Divorce

Pathetic-ally hopeless Dweeb

Probably heavily in Debt

Parents have Doubts

Professors had Doubts

Pheromone Deprived

Permanent head Damage

Pretty homely Dork

Potential heavy Drinker

Professional hamburger Dispenser...."Would you like fries with that?"

Pretty heavily Depressed

Prozac handouts Desired

Pretty heavy Diploma

Pathetic homeless Dreamer

Proudly half Dead

Phinally done!

 

- your pal,

 

Drunk Ole Dwayner, Ph.D.

 

 

[Dwayner]

[glen]

Dwayner, you forgot Post Hole Digger, for the geologists...

[Figger_Eight]

The AMGA is a member of the UIAGM/IFMG. Permissions given to UIAGM members are transferrable to AMGA certified guides overseas. That's what I understand at least.