Farrgo Posted February 20, 2013 Posted February 20, 2013 Apparently BD came out with a new version of the Fusion pick? Supposedly they have dropped the pick angle to increase performance on ice. Anyone have experience with these? Is there a noticeable improvement on ice? Does that change how they drytool? New BD Fusion Ice Pick Quote
John Frieh Posted February 20, 2013 Posted February 20, 2013 Climbs ice better (not as radical pick angle) but as you probably can guess isn't as "stable" mixed climbing. Quote
RafalA Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Good to know, John! Been wanting to make the Fusions a bit better on ice :-) Quote
John Frieh Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Good to know, John! Been wanting to make the Fusions a bit better on ice :-) The best way to get ice performance from a fusion is to sell it and buy nomics Quote
Dave7 Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Good to know, John! Been wanting to make the Fusions a bit better on ice :-) The best way to get ice performance from a fusion is to sell it and buy nomics Truth. Quote
Farrgo Posted February 21, 2013 Author Posted February 21, 2013 From what I'm told it sounds like the new ice pick might even the playing field between the nomic and the fusion. It seems funny that neither company has actually been able to come up with a tool that has everything you'd want (decent ice and mixed performance, dedicated attachment point, hammer). I don't think I would trade my nomics for a fusion and new ice pick, but then again I probably wouldn't sell fusions to get nomics given the new ice pick. Quote
RafalA Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Good to know, John! Been wanting to make the Fusions a bit better on ice :-) The best way to get ice performance from a fusion is to sell it and buy nomics Got Nomics, but am really liking the Fusions on rock... and not about to carry both for mixed Headwall missions Quote
DanielHarro Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Alex Lowe didn't have either.... ha Quote
Dane Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 "I'm told it sounds like the new ice pick might even the playing field between the nomic and the fusion." Ha, ha, that is a good one. Make a poor copy and not understand the nuances of design and you get..well you get a Green Fusion. It is going to take a lot more than 2 degrees less pick angle (back to almost the Cobra angle now with the new pick) to put the Fusion on an even playing field with a Nomic. It is a bit longer list than just pick angle. Quote
John Frieh Posted February 21, 2013 Posted February 21, 2013 Come on Dane... tell us how you really feel!!! Quote
Dane Posted March 1, 2013 Posted March 1, 2013 I have no problem voiceing an honest opinion based on experience John. Some hard climbs obviously get done on the Fusion. So how bad can it be? Not bad at all having used them myself a good bit. First year of Fusion II production I cut all sorts of picks @ several angles for BD tools to see if how they climb ice couldn't be improved. BTDT already..and as I said there are other more subtle issues involved. Shaving the heads, opening the grip angle, ditich the spike for more rotation and opening the pick angle will help the Fusion climb ice better. The details have all been listed here on CC.com a few years ago. Or you could simply buy a Nomic from the git go as you suggested. If you want to see the actual numbers on pick angle of all the BD technical tools they are listed here: "Black Diamond's technical tools change slightly in the angle of the pick to the shaft in every model, with increases starting with the Reactor @ 28.5, then Viper @ 30.5, Cobra @ 31, Fusion II @ 32 and Fusion I @ 33.5. Thickness of the grip also changes with the steeper tools having slightly smaller grips for more precision. How those numbers compare to Petzl is a guess in many ways. Shafts may be exact copies of each other, and are for angle, but at what angle the picks attach to the shaft is an other matter all together. How the pick design changes between Petzl and Black Diamond is another issue. As I said the differences are subtle." http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2010/10/ice-tools-part-two.html Quote
RafalA Posted March 1, 2013 Posted March 1, 2013 Damn, those picks looks sharp Dane. Make anything that improved the ice performance? Quote
Dane Posted March 1, 2013 Posted March 1, 2013 Hey Rafal, yes opening the pick angle on the Fusion did help on pure ice. Never been a M climber so for me 2 degrees means nothing anyway. Funny though that the Fusion with the newest pick now has less angele than a Cobra or a Viper! As I mentioned but didn't really make clear, it was all the other things that really made a difference with a Fusion on pure ice. Not just the drop in pick angle. Opening the pick angle a full 2 degrees tells me again a lot where BD is with the original design. Seems silly to offer it as a mixed pick though. Just my thought but an ice specific pick would seem more appropriate if you drop the angle. Changing the pick angle is so easy to do on BD picks in production. I was looking for a Aermet style pick so durability was what I really wanted from the project. Turns out my picks were more durable than aermet from my testing but I was never happy with the field testers results compared to the cost of manufacture. Really unhappy when I knew the Petzl picks were so good and by comparison so CHEAP! I finally stopped playing at it when I was asked to cut a half dozen Petzl picks to fit BD tools. Problem was solved in my mind by then. I just needed to change handles Quote
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