chris Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) I think these accidents bring home the point that if we chose to tolerate fixed draws they should be steel and cable, not aluminium and quickdraws. And if you're going for the hard onsite on a popular route, pay more attention to those fixed draws and consider carrying one back QD or taking the fall rather than clipping. Edited October 19, 2012 by chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_warfield Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) The problem is who is going to pay for permanent fixed draws. Climbers do routes and send on crappy fixed draws all the time. Climbers also equip a route and send on their own good draws over some period of time. Climbers also steal fixed draws because they have no respect or ethics. It is a problem with no good solution. Well I guess there is a solution: take your own draws and never let them age and never let them out of your eyesite. Edited October 19, 2012 by matt_warfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I am not for illegal camping and leaving garbage behind, and in no I want to excuse a bunch of dirtbags leaving mess behind. But to argue, that it will somehow effect fish in the river is an utter nonsense. Well, plastic doesn't help fish. Plastic doesn't break down, it just gets smaller and planktonic feeders will, well, feed on it. Of the 141 fishes spanning 27 species dissected in the study, Davison and Asch found that 9.2 percent of the stomach contents of mid-water fishes contained plastic debris, primarily broken-down bits smaller than a human fingernail. The researchers say the majority of the stomach plastic pieces were so small their origin could not be determined. "About nine percent of examined fishes contained plastic in their stomach. That is an underestimate of the true ingestion rate because a fish may regurgitate or pass a plastic item, or even die from eating it. We didn't measure those rates, so our nine percent figure is too low by an unknown amount," said Davison. If I saw a bad hanger I'd call for help if I could see the lights of town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_warfield Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) I have to admire Bob for predicting that this thread would drift to something like garbage and salmon other than fixed draws. It is the joy of the internet. Edited October 19, 2012 by matt_warfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaleHoopes Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Good comment above Matt regarding: "Well I guess there is a solution: take your own draws and never let them age and never let them out of your eyesite." P.S. I can see the lights of town. Now what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I guess you can over-analyze anything in front of the computer once the rain has begun. Common sense goes a long way. Look at the gear, make a decision, act on that decision. Sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 The problem is who is going to pay for permanent fixed draws. Climbers do routes and send on crappy fixed draws all the time. Climbers also equip a route and send on their own good draws over some period of time. Climbers also steal fixed draws because they have no respect or ethics. It is a problem with no good solution. Well I guess there is a solution: take your own draws and never let them age and never let them out of your eyesite. That's what makes those Fixe fixed-cable draws so sweet - they use a quick link on the bolt-end, making it hard to remove, and pretty impractical to boot. http://www.fixehardware.com/quickdraws.htm In some areas, the team establishing the route is responsible for the initial installment, then the local climbing community (either officially or unofficially) raises funds to maintain. But really, your final comment is spot on. If you don't want to take the risk of relying on fixed hardware, but don't think you can onsite it, then take the time to get your own draws on the route, and take the redpoint. In the end, There Ain't No Such Thing As a Free Lunch (you out there?) and climbing isn't cheap. If you try to be cheap with your wallet, she'll just take payment by other means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_warfield Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I have replaced anchors in just the way you describe but not draws on bolts so I understand what you are saying. I also agree that climbers should have a community that takes care of itself and the cost in gas for a trip to Smith would replace all the draws on Go Dog Go or Chain Reaction which have both suffered from aging draws. But asking climbers to do the right thing is sometimes like herding cats. Many are willing to drive or fly thousands of miles, park, sleep, drink, eat, crap, bitch, moan, and of course climb but not help take care of their sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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