Dane, too many hoods?

[NotMessner]

Dane’s “layered up” photo shows him wearing a 60 gram parka, another 60, a 1000, and a 60, for a total of 280 grams. Assume you need to keep your helmet on. The second parka has to go over the helmet and the first hood. The third hood has to go over the helmet plus two hoods. The fourth hood has to go over the helmet plus 3 hoods. Does any 60 gram parka have a hood big enough to go over that much bulk?

A 100 gram parka plus a 170 gram parka totals just 10 grams less than Dane’s four hoods, but the outer parka only has to go over a helmet plus the 100 gram parka. Does this situation point up a problem with Dane’s theory? (I love Dane… no, not that way… so I’m not trying to dis him.)

 

[JoeR]

All those layers signify ones age and experience, much like the size of an elk's antlers or rattles on a rattlesnakes tail. Hood layers until only recently played a large role in sexual selection and mating rituals in many primitive societies.

 

Only the truly gnarly can attain the legendary 4 hoods. Though I've heard of people with more, it usually requires intense spiritual training and personal sacrifice on Mt. Hood followed by an apprenticeship in Nepal under the great Master Cowl.

 

Other human groups display this layering phenomenon as well, as shown in this rare photo of the chief of the Brobrah Tribe of East New Jersey.

 

[img:left]http://iamhilarious.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/collars.jpg[/img]

[wetslide]

Bravo!

[Dane]

My suggestion is don't get stuck on the details you don't understand or have no experience with. Use what YOU need. Not what I use. I take pictures for effect when testing gear. The "layered" picture is one of them.

Of 7 pictured still only 3 layers going OVER the helmet. And one of them only to sleep in. Try to keep up will ya?

 

It needs to be a *planned, intentional and FITTED system* to work most effeciently. There is no "theory" here. The system I use is proven in use by a lot of climbers up on the current garment technology.

 

 

Lets do this in context AGAIN. The picture above was taken in the Midi Loo without a helmet prior to spending the night. I added a stocking hat and the last hooded layer to sleep in. The black, 60g hooded layer from Brooks Range is the last layer. And it has the hood sucked up with the draw cord because it is huge. And specifically why I used it there. No need to sleep in a helmet. I have been using a Petzl Meteor lately but it easily will go under every layer I require including everything in this picture. My Grivel will as well. I have a size 7.5 head. So it aint tiny by any means but typically fits in a normal sized helmet even with my base layer hoods but not usually with a hat on top of a R1 hood.

 

SAG Lwt Merino wool hoody against my skin. Then a hooded R1. Both easily go under the helmet.

 

The Atom LT Hoody easily goes over my helmet (60g). Then a Nano Puff pull over (60g). No hood, intentionally. Atom SV with a hood @ 100g is next.

 

Below is a climbing photo well after dark still on technical ground at 12K feet, same trip. You can see my base layer, blue SAG Merino wool hoody, the red R1, the green Atom Lt and the orange Atom SV. The bright green colored Nano Puff mid layer over the Atom LT is missing in this photo. But it is intentionally not hooded anyway.

 

At 12K feet in the dark and -30 temps those layers weren't enough for me unless I was working hard. But the hoods in this combo fit fine with a helmet. They aren't too small or too big.

 

The simple 3 layer system including 3 hoods that will work in most any cold alpine climbing environment. (drop one of the base layers here to get 3) I've written about it many times and been using for several years now. Adding layers simply makes sense for weight and bulk in the pack and additional warmth as required.

 

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2010/02/winter-layers.html

 

 

Below is Colin's and Nil's layering systems with 60g garments and a R1 in them...being used on the summit of Denali without helmets. Nils has at least 5 layers on, Colin 3.

 

I own only one insulated climbing jacket with a hood that won't fit over a helmet.

 

It should be obvious when you are putting together a layered system you need to pay attention to the details.

 

 

http://www.colinhaley.blogspot.com/2011_06_01_archive.html

[RafalA]

Yup, figure out your hood strategy beforehand, i.e. try it at home.

 

Also, if you look carefully, you'll notice that some companies (I have mostly noticed this with Arcteryx) make their mid-layer hoods smaller, and their belay / outer parka hood bigger to fit over layers. Someone, somewhere, is thinking as we are.

[Dane]

(I have mostly noticed this with Arcteryx) make their mid-layer hoods smaller, and their belay / outer parka hood bigger to fit over layers. Someone, somewhere, is thinking as we are.

 

Yes sir, the LT/SV system is either the luckiest pair of jacket designs ever made by one company or one of the best designed sysems yet for the alpine.

 

I wouldn't venture to even guess which is actually true.

[NotMessner]

Your re-explanation or maybe this is the third or fourth time you explained it, makes more sense to me, and seems clearer. Sorry if my ignorance stirred the pot unnecessarily, although others also may have been unclear. I think I missed the significance of: “Then a Nano Puff pull-over (60g). No hood, intentionally.” Here you deliberately avoided a hood, I assume to avoid the super pile-up of hoods I mentioned originally. I was misled by your statement that “the more hoods, the better.” Here, one less hood the better.

[Dane]

I think I missed the significance of: “Then a Nano Puff pull-over (60g). No hood, intentionally.” Here you deliberately avoided a hood, I assume to avoid the super pile-up of hoods I mentioned originally. I was misled by your statement that “the more hoods, the better.” Here, one less hood the better.

 

The choice of the Nano Puff pullover didn't have anything to do with the amount of hoods..as I said partially in jest "the more hoods the better".

 

The system inside the system here is the Atom LT used with a Nano Puff Pull over. That is a 120g and four layer of nylon insulation piece with a over the helmet hood. A super versatial combo. The Nano covers the stretch panels and makes the Atom LT a wind worthy garment. Add the exceptionally lwt weigh (in .oz) with even less volume in the pack for the added warmth is another benefit.

 

One reason I use the Atom Lt (and not the hooded Nano) as a shirt or sweater layer and size it appropriately is because it has those same stretch panels. (which everyone seems to have copied) The other is the wrong size on the Nano hood. The stretch panel allows the Atom LT to breath extremely well when you are working hard. There are other garments that can easily replace the Nano Pullover, with a better hood and differing weights of insulation. But I like the simple 120 combo and the pull over garment with a high collar for my own use.

 

The right size hood (read over the helmet with room to spare) on a Nano pullover would make an exceptional combination for how I use the two in combination. As I said previous, "My suggestion is don't get stuck on the details you don't understand or have no experience with".

 

The nano/Atom Lt is another "complete system" to go over my base layer/s. I use this combo a lot now when I is appropriate for the warmth required.