Dru Posted November 7, 2002 Posted November 7, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Fence Sitter: quote: an actual elected leader, yeah you mean whenever he wants to call a vote, he can? that is bull shit man... canada is fucked up. whenever a leader is up in the polls, he simply calls a vote and is good for the next 4 years...total bull...and you thik the U.S. isn't democratic...at least our pres. doesn't call whn the elections take place... Actually Scott the Canadian parliamentary system allows one to go up to 5 years between elections. And how did the 'advantage' you mention help Mulroney or Glen Clark at all Quote
MtnGoat Posted November 7, 2002 Posted November 7, 2002 actually what I was trying to say, is what I said! When the voters approved that plan, they approved *that* plan, not any plan, and not another plan. And certainly not a smaller one that costs way more. Revote is in order. Change the plan again, vote again and so on. Yes votes are not blank checks for any old thing with the same name. Quote
Fence_Sitter Posted November 7, 2002 Posted November 7, 2002 yes they go up to five years, but they can call an election anytime they want to. this entitles them to be able to closely monitor the polls and call an election... almost gauranteeing a win and another 5years in office...if we did this in the states, bush would call an election right during a war and he would be in for another 4 years almost gauranteed... Quote
eric8 Posted November 7, 2002 Posted November 7, 2002 Dru if this Gordon's plan goes through does it mean that US will have to log right up to the Canadian/American border like the canucks did. Cause I for one would like to keep some trees on our side of the border. Quote
Dru Posted November 7, 2002 Posted November 7, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Fence Sitter: yes they go up to five years, but they can call an election anytime they want to. this entitles them to be able to closely monitor the polls and call an election... almost gauranteeing a win and another 5years in office...if we did this in the states, bush would call an election right during a war and he would be in for another 4 years almost gauranteed... So then he'd just be out in 6 years instead of 8? All it means is politicians can spread their bribery out over the term instead of dumping it all in every 4 years when they need to be reelected. But maybe you are listening to the Bible thumpers at your school tell you about how the Liberals are always in power in Canada. That has to do with the fact that a) they've bought off Ontario and Quebec (70% of country's population) b) they haven't fucked up like Mulroney did c) the opposition are uninspiring unless you are a Bible thumper (alliance/Reform) or an actual real live progressive socialist (NDP). But whatever. you coming to the Slideshow tonight? Quote
ScottP Posted November 7, 2002 Posted November 7, 2002 What with all of this snapping and snarling and pontificating and proselytizing about nothing more than media-induced perception, I would like to know if anyone has any concrete examples of how any of this political shit you keep dragging out and beating each other with is going to affect your lives personally. Just curious, because you all are acting like it's some big fuckin deal. Quote
Dru Posted November 7, 2002 Posted November 7, 2002 quote: Originally posted by eric8: Dru if this Gordon's plan goes through does it mean that US will have to log right up to the Canadian/American border like the canucks did. Cause I for one would like to keep some trees on our side of the border. the americans logged right up to the border near sumas where they could get at the wood. i see the c;learcuts every time i drive home from abbotsford. the valleys you refer to are ones where the only access was through canada and we weren't about to let americans come through canada to log american wood. Quote
eric8 Posted November 7, 2002 Posted November 7, 2002 quote: Dru: valleys you refer to are ones where the only access was through canada and we weren't about to let americans come through canada to log american wood Interesting point, I will have to compare that to a map next time I'm up high that way. Quote
allthumbs Posted November 7, 2002 Author Posted November 7, 2002 Goat, I don't have a problem with that idea. I'll tell you what though, the way the economy is going around here, if Washingtonians' just wait it out for a couple more years, Boeing, the forest industry and the high tech industries will have moved and downsized to the point where traffic is no longer an issue. I already notice less traffic than I did a year ago. Seriously, let the kalifornians' move out of here and maybe we'll get back to a manageable size. Quote
allthumbs Posted November 7, 2002 Author Posted November 7, 2002 Also, if you really want to do this state some justice, impeach Locke. He's a goddamn nightmare. Quote
allison Posted November 7, 2002 Posted November 7, 2002 Goat, with all due respect, you are being simplistic. I don't think the transit thing has gone at all smooth since the voters approved it in 1998, but the fact of the matter is, the thing is going to cost more than initial projections. The same thing will happen with the Monorail. Quote
Greg_W Posted November 7, 2002 Posted November 7, 2002 quote: Originally posted by allison: I don't think the transit thing has gone at all smooth since the voters approved it in 1998, but the fact of the matter is, the thing is going to cost more than initial projections. The same thing will happen with the Monorail. Double the price is a bit too much. They could solve this problem through the bidding process: Hard bids from contractors with a strictly defined scope of work. This happens all the time in private contracting and it works; projects actually get done on time, too. The "low-bid" rule is a scam; contractors bid low knowing what change orders they can get away with during the project and they bid accordingly. Greg W Quote
allthumbs Posted November 7, 2002 Author Posted November 7, 2002 You'll need to hog-tie Locke and his lackies to hold costs to initial bid. Quote
MtnGoat Posted November 7, 2002 Posted November 7, 2002 "Goat, with all due respect, you are being simplistic." Not everything is complex and unmanagable, and complexity is not an excuse for bait and switch. Big projects are complex and these people are paid professionals expected to deal with that very complexity. If they cannot deal with this, they are not the ones who should be running such a project. If they did not have costs and scope properly done *before* they offered it for a vote, that's their responsbility, not that of the voters. It is not acceptable to ask for a vote, then claim a yes vote for one plan applies to an entirely different and far more costly plan. That is *not* what was approved. If planners expect us to take them seriously when they offer something, they should take our approval seriously and have their plan done and accurate *before* they ask for a vote. "The same thing will happen with the Monorail." It may well be, in which case the people paying for it will deserve another vote on it. Money isn't just some abstract something that's just paper or numbers, it means real people spending real time from their lives to generate it, and they deserve absolute control over what their irreplacable time is used for IMO. [ 11-07-2002, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: MtnGoat ] Quote
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