dustjunkie Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 Yep that's it... I just moved back to the PNW, and want to do skiing right this time. When I lived here before (7 yrs ago), I did a bunch of climbing, and I am pretty good on a snowboard. Just before I left, I picked up an AT setup, and decided to learn how to ski. My approach was to spend on day on the lift, and then head to Adams... not so successful When I left, I sold all my gear. Coming back to the sport, my thought is to go to crystal, and do a few group lessons, then do a couple private lessons, and that should get me to a point where I can be good enough to turn in the crud. Am I crazy? Is this a reasonable approach? Is Crystal a good place for this kind of instruction? I know, just get a split board set up... I thought about it, and really want to learn how to ski... FYI, I have taken Avi safety classes, but will probably do a refresher class, and I am good with cravass/high angle rescue and safety, haul systems, ropes, anchors, etc... Quote
DRep Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 Learn how to ski in the resort for a few years to get the fundamentals down - then focus on backcountry. Lessons would be a great idea. That is doing it the right way. I believe you would be doing yourself and your partners a disservice by not being a fundamentally sound skier and venturing into the backcountry. Crystal or Baker are great places to venture into the sidecountry once you are a COMPETANT skier. I know it is tough to wait because you're excited, but your patience will pay off! Best of luck to you and I hope you have a great time back in the PNW! Quote
Alex Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 I think you should have a solid season of front country skiing under your belt, however you affoard the lift tix, before you head off B/C skiing, to get the balance basics down. You should be able to survival ski down anything at any lift area. It shouldnt take overly long (eg more than a real season - say 10-15 days) if you were a very solid snowboarder. B/C skiing is much more difficult than front country skiing and if you are not solid on the basics, you are going to get hurt, and then your partners have to get you out. It is vastly easier to get hurt on skis than on a board...knee, tib/fib, ankle injuries are very common especially in the extremely variable conditions you'll find in the backcountry. If you are overly committed and know this is your path, then you can do your front country skiing on an AT setup, and not end up with two sets of gear in the end.... Quote
caverpilot Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) I agree with the above posts, and will add this: Once you can easily ski down all blues and most blacks, try backcountry skiing in an EASY area in the SPRING when conditions are like they groomed the whole mountain (corn!). From my experience, it is far easier to start b/c skiing in "good" conditions and then slowly progress to "worse/harder" conditions (windpacked,mank,crud,powder,cascade cement) that one finds earlier in the skison. Go with experienced folks, many you can hook up with here on CC, go early, and get down before it slushes up. St. Helens, Hood, and Adams all have "blue" slopes you can easily ski in great conditions. Let the experienced folks tell you when it's time to shred! Also, also try touring (i.e. "cross country") a bit before you hit the steep slopes to get your system down - switching from level to heel-lifter steep, taking on/off your skins with your gloves on, get used to short downhills on groomed trails with your skins on, etc. That way you'll have your system dialed in lest the weather comes in on the open ridges. Always go with someone who has more experience than you, and you should be fine!! (Keep those DIN settings low at first in the b/c, you don't want to blow a knee out there!) Finally, Alex has it right - don't buy an alpine set up if you know you're heading to the b/c - get a good set up and practice on it in the front country -that way you won't have to get used to a second set of skis. Good Luck! Edited November 28, 2011 by caverpilot Quote
jhamaker Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 I say go for it. After you can survive black, head out on easy stuff to learn skinning WITH A PARTNER. Don't want to find yourself in a tree well w/o assistance less than 120 seconds away (or how ever long you can hold your breath). I reccomend Hyak as a training hill. Mt. Margaret, Anabalis,are good but not Granite or anything in the Source Lk or Commonweatlth basin (avy central) In seven short years I could teach you to tele ski. Quote
dustjunkie Posted November 28, 2011 Author Posted November 28, 2011 Hey guys, thanks for all the input! Looks like I need to plan a bit more budget for time in the front country... I can't really afford to go out a pick up my AT setup, so I had planned on renting alpine gear in the mean time, anything wrong with this? Ever seen them rent AT gear? My climbing partners have been skiing (mostly tele...) for years, so there is a good level of trust, and willingness to coach... They are the guys that took me up Adams years ago (trust?? maybe rethink that....). Also, we have skinned up to Muir, and some other short day trips. I also have done a 3 day tour in Colorado, so probably have total 10 days on skins. I just don't know how to turn in anything other than perfect conditions (lot of step turns...). I also thought about the tele route, and as much fun as that sounds, I think AT makes more sense... Here is my revised plan: Start going to crystal soon as much as possible... 1) Do group lessons with rental gear until 3 or 4 times, until I am comfortable getting down blues, and stepping off the groomed. 2) Continue as often as possible renting gear, and getting more comfortable, working up to blacks when I think I can. 3) Once I feel solid there, arrange a couple of private lessons (early spring) to venture off into the side country, and learn how to deal with the unpredictable crap. Maybe watch for a new snow - warm day(s) - cold day so I can practice on the icy/crusty stuff with instruction... 3) If all goes well, and I am feeling really good, maybe take a late spring trip up the lower part of Adams... To be clear, this is the most conservative/planned approach I think I have ever taken in anything I have ever done... I just think that b/c skiing ups the risk ante by a lot. Jake Quote
ARob Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 FYI - As for learning how to ski, I just went through the Ski Instructor Seminar up at Stevens and I really like their approach. Super professional, they cut out the extraneous bull shit that I remember as a kid. My sister is an instructor at Snoqualmie and according to her it sounds like kind of a shit show down there. But I really dig the approach at Stevens. Now I just gotta ace my on hill interview this saturday. Quote
Alex Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 Your revised plan is very good. I think its important to be conservative here as any kind of injury will make you lose weeks in the season at the very least. In 1993 I was working as a liftie on Mt Hood and over the course of the season I got 52 days in, but that was with 2 sprained knees, 2 sprained ankles, and a very serious back injury that plagues me to this day. I was not patient enough then to heal completely before the next injury came along, and I was an expert skiier even then! I would just add a few things... Agree with your gut: dont try to learn to tele if you dont know how to ski yet, it's quite difficult to learn and just adds length to your apprenticeship, for little practical gain. I've been skiing since I was 4, and tele for 18 years now, and I am back on AT gear half the time in the backcountry now Someday when you get bored of fixed heel skiing, go try tele Renting is an OK way to go. If you believe budget will be a problem, start visiting Second Ascent/Marmot as they often have used AT setups. I would highly encourage you borrow some setups and try them out a few times before you commit to anything. I was super lucky and borrowed a friends Dynafit setup for a long weekend of touring before I pulled the trigger on a used pair of boards WITH Dynafit bindings for only 200?! Sometimes the stuff you'll find at Marmot/SA is not always a deal, but you'll get some exposure to different options. Don't feel the need to buy new! Be very patient with the gear purchase, a good pair of AT boards should last you 10+ years. Also, realize that the boards and boots are just part of the cost: you MUST have a beacon for any serious off piste sliding. Don't be cheap, get a great beacon! Its part of the ritual to go and practice with it with your friends early season. I'd recommend a metal-bladed shovel, and a probe. Skins are actually getting very costly these days, and for serious usage only last a limited time so budget for skins as well. If you're lucky you'll find them on sale or get them used off craigslist in good condition, but sooner or later you plunk down serious money for skins, so budget for it. As for late spring plans, my first recommendation would be to go ski St Helens from the top in late March/April. Its much less variable than Adams and will be easy for you to walk up in boots, and easy for you to walk down should it not be working out. I've skiied off the top of Adams and Hood but Adams wasnt that great of a ski - some very steep terrain and some real low angle stuff that wasnt inspiring. St Helens is good for the money. Finally, most religious b/c skiiers read TurnsAllYear regularly, its a good place to meet other b/c skiiers. Here is my revised plan: Start going to crystal soon as much as possible... 1) Do group lessons with rental gear until 3 or 4 times, until I am comfortable getting down blues, and stepping off the groomed. 2) Continue as often as possible renting gear, and getting more comfortable, working up to blacks when I think I can. 3) Once I feel solid there, arrange a couple of private lessons (early spring) to venture off into the side country, and learn how to deal with the unpredictable crap. Maybe watch for a new snow - warm day(s) - cold day so I can practice on the icy/crusty stuff with instruction... 3) If all goes well, and I am feeling really good, maybe take a late spring trip up the lower part of Adams... To be clear, this is the most conservative/planned approach I think I have ever taken in anything I have ever done... I just think that b/c skiing ups the risk ante by a lot. Jake Quote
ryanb Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 Just to offer a disenting opinion, my wife and I have been learning to ski mostly in the backcountry for the last few years. She skied a season in colorado a few years ago and I'm transitioning from a bit of XC and the occasional tele turn at huricane ridge as a kid. It is definitely not the quickest approach to downhill mastery but, if your main goal is to get out in the woods and you have willing partners, there are lots of great mellow tours that blur the line with cross country skiing (the seabury blair book is full of them: http://www.amazon.com/Backcountry-Ski-Washington-Free-Heelers-Snowboarders/dp/1570611513)...we have spent many a happy day lapping powder bowls in out of the way clear cuts. We did get season passes this year to snoqualamie to accelerate the process a bit...my first time on a char lift was a few weeks ago and we picked our way down a couple of black diamond in crudy cut up and refrozen conditions saturday. As far as turning in more conditions. I am probably the worst skier on this thread but I've discovered that stem cristies and hop turns are your friend for dealing with variable conditions on light gear or steeper stuff...they won't get you in ski videos but they work. Good four post series on the subject here: http://straightchuter.com/2009/03/steep-skiing-101/ Martin Voleken's "Backcountry Skiing Skills" also has a chapter on the stem cristie and its application to variable backcountry snow... Quote
Water Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 wanted to thank everyone who responded, i'm in a very similar boat to the OP. Really want to get into bc touring/ski mnteering but have been tentative on where and how to start the process off. very helpful broad level advice, much appreciated. Quote
dustjunkie Posted November 28, 2011 Author Posted November 28, 2011 Water, yeah! Real quality responses here! great advice, and info! ryanb, I really appreciate your comments, and typically would go that route, but I have "skied" down a couple of mountains now (Adams, Rainier, and Hood (forgot that one earlier)...) with a mountaineering pack on (ropes, camping gear, etc.) and know how much fun I was not having, and my climbing partners were having. I need to accelerate the learning curve a bit... Alex, Your comments about the right gear is well taken, and part of the budget issue. I had a BCA transponder, Avilung, aluminum shovel, etc., but sold it all when I moved... All that stuff is back on the list and I am out there looking for deals as we "speak". Regarding the practice, I agree with that as well. As a climbing team, we would regularly set up haul systems and practice rescues on the front lawn, or over the corness on the lower east side of the muir snow field. I am firmly of the belief that by the time you need to perform a rescue, the parts of the rescue should be second nature. Thanks again for all the solid advice!!! Quote
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