Lovetoclimb Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 No I'm not talking about little girls buried in the woods. I'm talking about cliffs that were covered in ivy and have been uncovered. Anybody seen it? What were your thoughts? It was a fun project. The best part was getting to rappel from behind the cross on the building at the edge of the cliff at the Grotto to clean ivy off of that cliff. That has to be the most classic looking line I've seen in Oregon. Too bad it isn't open for climbing. Now the inmate work crews get the fun job of going in there and packing all of that crap out. Better than hanging out in jail I guess. Sorry no pics. Guess all you PDX crag rats will have to go stomp around in the woods getting dirty condoms stuck to your shoes and broken glass in your hands when you slip on said condoms to see what I'm talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Not open to climbing? Poach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 You hit that area? Sweet, maybe you can share the whole gig with us. All kinds of new stuff happening up there. When I was up for the last trash pickup event: Chad, Mark and I cruised the area under Video Bluff and saw someone had been cleaning that part of the cliff off. They'd done a pretty good job at it too. I'd like to thank those souls that are doing the heavy lifting. thank you thank you thank you!!!! BTW, Chad says he thinks that he's seen the guys pulling all of the invasive English Ivy on the lower part of the North Side (freeway to cliff) and he swears it's 2 old guys on ATV's who show up, swill beer and pull ivy. I've never seen this but I am in awe at the massive amount of work they have put in if it's really just 2 guys. So maybe it's you and a crew or a full inmate crew would be more like it. The non-native Holly trees are getting sawn down as well and someone is also building a platform at the base of Silver Bullet. Lots of good activity. Nice to see folks get involved and pitch in. For myself, I noticed that some of the poison oak is growing back and it needs to be hit by spray by someone. Or pulled up by hand, whatever your preference is. As far as those routes being off limits, I don't think that is the case. A bunch of us had climbed a bunch of stuff in therein the 70s early 80's, and a few had rap points below the cliff tops. Once they put the houses in, interest waned with the English Ivy growth, but no one said "can't climb here"...as far as I know. I don't recall any routes being so obvious located in the Grotto, and if you are rapping behind the cross, might be a new route and that might in fact really be off limits. Take some tied webbing if you want to hit it, and mostly thank you thank you thank you!!!! for getting on the English Ivy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovetoclimb Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 You'll really love this part. We were getting paid to do it. I'm not an old guy on an ATV with a bunch of beer. I'm a 34 year old guy who just happens to be an arborist who works periodically with the tree service that got the contract to do the invasive species removal on the cliffs that the inmate work crews or city crews can't work on. We just get it on the ground and then it isn't our problem anymore. I feel sorry for the poor bastards that have to deal with it at that point. On the route by the cross at the Grotto there was a sling tied to a chockstone way back in the crack and also some bolts at the top so I think at some point someone did do that line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cja Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 So, quick trip report from the Butte: As usual, it was a bit noisy, but the breakfast cracks were very nice today--great temps, good classics, and no one else there until just as we were leaving at 4 two parties showed up...one of them looking for easy sport climbs--recommended OZone. Lots of stuff cleaned off the wall north/right of the breakie cracks...a few stray bolts revealed, two with booty/bail biners still waiting... Found some tat that had been cut off there-packed that out and pocketed a rap ring. didn't get over to see this platform at silver bullet...sounds a little enticing, but another trip to Beacon is on deck for now. One question though: How long have ALL the convenience anchors at the breakfast cracks been gone? Who (climbers or otherwise, if not specifically) has done this, and why? Lots of other hangers/bolts on routes gone too. I imagine this isn't news, but maybe someone can point me to an old yet enlightening thread. The chained tree over Espresso and a single bolt way over to climbers' right are all that seem to be left... Yeah, I know--that was two questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TofuTodd Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 cja - at least a year. It's sad really. Breakfast cracks are the bomb. I haven't seen any bolted anchors west of the guardrail. There is a arete with a new shiny bolt on it viewable at the west end of toothpick wall - any idea what route that is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 You'll really love this part. We were getting paid to do it. I'm not an old guy on an ATV with a bunch of beer. I'm a 34 year old guy who just happens to be an arborist who works periodically with the tree service that got the contract to do the invasive species removal on the cliffs that the inmate work crews or city crews can't work on. We just get it on the ground and then it isn't our problem anymore. I feel sorry for the poor bastards that have to deal with it at that point. Hah hah! Sweet! ...When Chad mentioned 2 guys on ATV's doing all this I was dubious, that would be a MASSIVE amount of work for just 2 guys, and old ones at that. How do you keep the Ivy from growing back, or is that a trade secret? How long have you guys been working at this? One question though: How long have ALL the convenience anchors at the breakfast cracks been gone? Who (climbers or otherwise, if not specifically) has done this, and why? Lots of other hangers/bolts on routes gone too. I imagine this isn't news, but maybe someone can point me to an old yet enlightening thread. I don't know, but I can say that the tradition is that climbers don't add bolts where they did not exist previously without buyin from everyone first. Historically there has been no anchors on that end as they are not needed there as you can set them up easily with gear. Every once in a while some show up and get chopped. The exception is the bolt anchors/rusty chains on Wisdom Tooth which have been there for years, but still no one climbs that superb route despite having a chain anchor and being easily accessed right next to Birds. You can do a search here on this issue. In fact, do a search for "lil Dawg" if you think everyone thinks like you...should lead to a lot of contentious posts. I think we had an earlier 26 page argument over some kind of similar issue that was never resolved. People don't change their opinions it seems:-) And that's just the folks who post online, probably a lot of people don't even touch a computer but still have strong views on the subject. The most interesting argument I've heard AGAINST bolted anchors was back when I was asking around to see if it would be OK to put a set in on the top of the magnificent route called Crack Warrior, where none had been before. There had been a large fir tree that had been a perfect anchor on top which blew over one winter and took a few years to rot away to nothingness. I went up there with 2 CC.comers to climb it (Crackman and someone else) telling them how awesome the line was etc etc. the belay tree had all but disappeared! I mean, all but a bit of rotting substance on the ground which indicated a tree had been there at one point. Smears for Fears located right there has always had some shitty assed steel chains although you could use this old tree then as well, but those don't work at all for Crack Warrior. It hadn't seemed like it had been that long since I'd been on that route....but it obviously was. So every time I'd go out that way I'd ask folks what they thought of the idea of putting in a set of chains there. Posted the same ? to CC too. Folks were pretty receptive as I told the story till one day I asked 3 guys who just blew up at me. In the emotional tirade that followed, I learned 2 things: 1st) The big one which stuck with me was they said that having bolts/bolt anchors by the cliff edge was causing most of the accidents up there. I'd never really thought of it before. The things attracted noobs they said, and no matter the skill set, anyone near the slick cliff edge was at risk of slipping and pitching off. I have since seen that is true....like over and over. People go right to the edge unroped and the result if often a bloody mess and a fire dept call out. Almost all of the call outs are where the bolted areas are. Having a bunch of Fire and rescue calls to the same place to rescue one climber after another (or haul them out in a body bag) is not productive to keeping access open for us long term. Climbers who set up a gear anchor always start by tieing themselves off to a big fir before they get near the edge, then build an anchor and incorporate the backup rope off the fir. SIGNIFICANTLY safer. Folks clipping bolts most often just reach right out with 2 draws expecting everything to hold and don't worry cause that stuff is thoroughly and constantly checked for them in the gym so they don't need to think about it. Anyway, the 2nd thing I learned, after quite sometime of getting yammered at, is that they didn't know where Crack warrior was, had never climbed it. They calmed down after a while as I repeated a few times I was only soliciting opinions, but they'd started out pretty pissed. Some photos. Smears for Fears chains with the rotten remains of that once stout Doug Fir. I figured you can back them up from the new Warrior anchor. I think I got rid of most of the rot when I cleaned up there. This is half way into cleaning it off. New chains on Crack Warrior and Lil Dawg close up, (they might be 2 years old by now, new is relative) you can see a lil Piggyback plant in the crack from lack of use LOL. I think that any replacements should be using beefy and quality materials which good longevity. These are 1/2 x 7" with corresponding SS chain. The location is sort of hidden too, you have to sniff around to get here. The sawn off tree by the cliff is the turn to get on the path. What the approach looks like. I've cleaned the crap out of this, swept the rock off with a broom. Added one here or there at a few other spots as well, this is Livewire on Video. This is a traditional rap point. Getting to the base is a bitch and this rap is pretty good. Saw a kid clip in and step out so that the pull was straight out (instead of down) my heart was in my throat watching this. Came back and put this ICC rated 1/2 X 7" stainless wedge anchor with SS chain in to back it up. Later, fella who posts as Lodestone here (Chad) contacted me via PM to see if I would replace the chains on top of Video Bluff. I went out to look at it, hauled my crap along, and Chad was also out there, he heard the noise and came on over and said hi. I had thought that it was impossible to pull out a 3/8" steel wedge anchor without destroying the rock but Chad managed to get one out and prove otherwise. I handed him the drill and we made it a 1/2" hole and banged in the replacements. Since I met him, we've been getting in some pretty good climbs together. One of those sets has since got jacked, the pretty (and expensive) Fixe stainless chains, which is strange as the studs were not disturbed but we'd red loctited them on. Chad noticed it on the TV news report when that Swiss guy died at that spot and let me know. I replaced those with just regular chains. Chad had replaced either the hangers or the bolts (as needed, some of the bolts were crap) on that 5.11 slab on Silver Bullet. If anyone wants to do something REAL constructive out there, go clean off the top of Stiff Fingers till you get to bare rock. I just noticed that all that dirt and crap on top keeps sloughing off with the rain and runs all over Vertical Therapy making it perpetually dirty. Finish getting rid of the poison oak too, these guys pulling the English ivy would dig that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I don't know, but I can say that the tradition is that climbers don't add bolts where they did not exist previously without buyin from everyone first. That is a big WRONG......you only need the FA's blessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovetoclimb Posted August 6, 2011 Author Share Posted August 6, 2011 After working out at Rocky Butte those days I just kept wondering why this place is just such an under visited mossfest. If the pioneers of these lines would allow others to re-clean, retro when necessary, and add some convenience anchors I feel like this place could be a pretty appealing climbing area. As far as the ignorant climber plummeting problem of easily accessed bolts, I would just call that natural selection. As someone who has put up well over 100 climbs, I know that I want people to climb my routes. If that means changing some bolt placements or adding convenience anchors so be it. I know. I just kicked the hornets nest. So be it. Let the crying begin. Boo hoo. Waaaa. What makes sense to allow the most people to get out and enjoy the area? Not what makes sense to keep the cliffs mossy, ivy covered, and abandoned until some egocentric person goes and recleans it, redpoints after getting it dialed on tr because it is too scary to lead, and then it is abandoned for another 5 years until the next cleaning/ego stoking session. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 i doubt you'll get many arguments 'round here - rocky butt sucks and is ignored for a # of reasons, including the bizarr-o bolt police who stalk it - moss, junkies, fundies, whores, traffic roar, syringes, used rubbers, dirt, chopped bolts, yadda, yadda you can't argue w/ crazy folks though, and it's far easier to chop a bolt than keep it placed, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaidman Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 i doubt you'll get many arguments 'round here - rocky butt sucks and is ignored for a # of reasons, including the bizarr-o bolt police who stalk it - moss, junkies, fundies, whores, traffic roar, syringes, used rubbers, dirt, chopped bolts, yadda, yadda AMEN!! Brother speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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